Replacement of indirect vented cylinder with indirect unvented cylinder

[Greg1955]

Following completion of plumbing work today I would appreciate any advice on the following two issues :



Q1 I have had a 150litre horizontal indirect cylinder (Telford Brand) installed today on an unvented system. After the plumber left I saw the installation instructions which state –

“ The cylinder should be mounted … so that the tappings A, B, C, are along the top edge. The cylinder MUST NOT be rotated around the long axis”.


My installation has been done with the tappings at the 3 0’ Clock position rather than the 12 0’clock position.


Can anyone advise what the implications are (apart from voiding my warranty!) of this deviation from the recommended fitting protocol?



Q2 I currently have two power showers fitted which worked fine with the previous vented system. However, I understand that power showers should not be used with an unvented system. Following the installation of the unvented system I tried the showers and they appear to work fine.



What are the risks / dangers of continuing to use the power showers with the new unvented indirect system?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

TBH I wouldn't worry about where it is in rotation aslong as you can get to everything due to maintenance later on

Correct these should of been changed unless he's left your hot water system on gravity (still using the tank in the loft)

Have you more hot water pressure now than before?

 

[Greg1955]

TBH I wouldn't worry about where it is in rotation aslong as you can get to everything due to maintenance later on

Correct these should of been changed unless he's left your hot water system on gravity (still using the tank in the loft)

Have you more hot water pressure now than before?

Shaun,
many thanks for prompt reply.
I appreciate the point you make about maintenance but is that the only reason that the manufacturer requires the cylinder to be fitted with the tappings at 12 '0clock?

With regards to the showers - these are fed from the new cylinder (the old storage tank was removed) and I would say that the pressure is possibly a little better but not significantly. Could you please address the issue of what exactly is the risk of continuing to use the power shower?
Thanks for your time

 

[Meady]

Surely one of them tappings would be the hot feed from the cylinder so would need to be at the top not the side?

 

[king of pipes]

Greg post some pictures please i would alway fit to the manufacturers instructions, picture of your power shower to please cheers kop.

 

[Best]

If your power showers were previously simply mixer valves supplied from a separate pump (usually located in airing cupboard), then that would be fine to have removed pump when changing to unvented cylinder.
But if your power showers are individual units with their own pumps, they should not be on an unvented system.
Best thing you can do is ring the power showers manufacturers technical line and ask them. Although if you look up the manufacturers instructions, it should give details.
Telford would also be best to have contacted to ask about linking to power showers

 

[Greg1955]

Greg post some pictures please i would alway fit to the manufacturers instructions, picture of your power shower to please cheers kop.

Hi Kop,
As requested I have uploaded a few photos to the following link https://photos.app.goo.gl/6Y2VTuDEPzjHFUcm1 .

I would welcome your comments.
Greg

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Was he G3 registered? (Unvented qualified)

As I notice some things wrong and them showers need to be changed

Rotation I would say is fine

 

[Greg1955]

Was he G3 registered? (Unvented qualified)

As I notice some things wrong and them showers need to be changed

Rotation I would say is fine

Hi Shaun,
Yes he is G3 - I checked prior to requesting quote. With regards to the rotation I have spoken to Telford technical support and they advise :
- As fitted the cylinder will not heat the water properly - only about half will be heated because of the ingress of cold
- Flow will be reduced
- Will not be possible to drain cylinder fully - will need to siphoned

So , I have arranged for plumber to return this pm.

You mentioned that you noticed some things wrong - can you be more specific as I would like to know the full picture before I speak to him again?

Thanks for your help

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Can't see why as the heating is in a coil so should heat equally

Can't see why flow would be reduced

And you won't fully drain the cylinder unless there's a drain port on the bottom

But they made the cylinder so they know best

And the discharge pipe work is wrong (pipe with the black tundish on)

From the bottom of the tundish to the first bend needs to be more than 600 mm (60cm)

 

[Greg1955]

Can't see why as the heating is in a coil so should heat equally

Can't see why flow would be reduced

And you won't fully drain the cylinder unless there's a drain port on the bottom

But they made the cylinder so they know best

And the discharge pipe work is wrong (pipe with the black tundish on)

From the bottom of the tundish to the first bend needs to be more than 600 mm (60cm)

Shaun,
I am unable to comment on the reasons given by Telford but their response was immediate and unequivocal. I believe it is to do with the internal design of the cylinder
( https://www.heatandplumb.com/images/products/telford/dimensions/technical_product_TELTSMI125H.jpg ) .

With regards to the pipe below the tundish - my understanding was that under building Regs the minimum distance was 300mm ? - no doubt my info is out of date.
Thanks

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Shaun,
I am unable to comment on the reasons given by Telford but their response was immediate and unequivocal. I believe it is to do with the internal design of the cylinder
( https://www.heatandplumb.com/images/products/telford/dimensions/technical_product_TELTSMI125H.jpg ) .

With regards to the pipe below the tundish - my understanding was that under building Regs the minimum distance was 300mm ? - no doubt my info is out of date.
Thanks

Sorry both are wrong 600mm max from the valve to the finish entry and min 300mm to a bend more the better

 

[SimonG]

Hot offtake at 3 o'clock will mean you will only ever get 1/2 the tanks worth of hot water. Needs spinning to 12 o'clock, the discharge pipework sorting (wonder where it terminates) and insulating.
Did you see his g3 card?

 

[Greg1955]

Hot offtake at 3 o'clock will mean you will only ever get 1/2 the tanks worth of hot water. Needs spinning to 12 o'clock, the discharge pipework sorting (wonder where it terminates) and insulating.
Did you see his g3 card?

Simon,
I think you're spot on - that is effectively what Telford Tech Support said. The boss has been back this PM and acknowledged the issues and I believe this will now be resolved amicably.
As I indicated in an earlier post I did check plumbers G3 status prior to accepting quote and he is on Gas Safe register..

Thank you for taking the trouble to comment.

 

[king of pipes]

The guys have given some good advice greg, i would have fitted it with the connections at 12 oclock position the discharge needs sorting out as it does not comply with the regs and the showers need changing as they are not designed for use on a unvented system, all the hot and cold pipework needs insulating sorry to say some schoolboy errors there bud . cheers kop

 

[Best]

I could be wrong, but it looks like the work was done by somebody not long out of training - trying to do a neat job, but clueless about reading instructions or how to plan out the pipework. Young beginner perhaps?