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Discuss Potentially being taken to court. What should I do? in the Plumbing Jobs | The Job-board area at PlumbersForums.net

armyash

Plumbers Arms member
Plumber
Gas Engineer
Messages
2,653
Hi everyone

Had a call this afternoon from a customer, I fitted a toilet in their half finished cloakroom approximately 2months ago. The floor was newly tiled, and there was an open stud wall at the back where it looks like there was a cistern at one point.

I fitted a toilet, supplied by the customer and I drilled through the tiles for the fixings. Phone call today to say she has had to have the tiles ripped up, And the central heating pipe repaired.

I have spoken to her partner who is a decent bloke and he told me what's happened. He said she wants to take me to court but he said he would speak to me first to sort something out.

She doesn't want me back in the house which is why they didn't have me do the repairs. I said they should have called me.

I don't want to go to court over it but I don't want to be slagged off online either. I had no way of knowing the heating pipes were there as I didn't do the previous work.

I boarded up the stud wall and I also renewed the old basin for a small wall hung unit/basin. Which there is no issue with.

They have said repairs are approximately £350. I would have done the repairs for free (obviously) if they had let me know. They have said they will send me pictures and copies of bills for repairs so they are not trying it on.

What would you do? I'm thinking offer them 50% of the repair bill as they could have come to me for it. I don't want to be a walkover but I don't want to bend over either.
 
Why does she not want you back in the house?

How did you drill through the Heating pipes and not know about it there and then?

Why has it taken so long for it to become evident?

I would offer nothing yet or apologise!

You need to think and talk through the situation first in my opinion.
 
Pretty sure it is written down somewhere that UFH heating pipes shouldn`t have been laid in that area under the pan.
(Seem to remember it from a post earlier this year or the end of the last year).

2 months seems a long time for the fault to show unless you just nicked a pipe, as said admit to nothing at this stage (same as a car prang) and aren`t you supposed to be aloud to investigate at the very least?
 
I have had something similar Ash . 18 months ago and I am still not happy .

The first call of a leak quite simply should have been you , I smell a rat here .
 
If they didn't give you chance to repair it then they don't have anything to stand on just say that if they would of called me back I would of done the repair and any damage foc

I'm sorry accidents do happen but not often
 
She just doesn't want me back in the house because she is not happy I have caused this problem.

Ill add more info because there is nothing worse than half a story.

I fitted a boiler for a bloke about 18months ago. Happy with my work, passed my details on to a colleague, this colleague is the problem customers partner (who called me today). I went and serviced his boiler approximately 15months ago, no probs, then this year he called and asked if I could service his girlfriends boiler. His girlfriend is this customer with the leak.

I went and serviced the boiler, he was there also, she was funny from the minute I arrived, seems the type who thinks they are important and probably get to boss people around in work. They seemed to be not getting on, she kept snapping at him. I felt uncomfortable, within 20mins she asked how long I would be. When I was done he even apologised outside and said she was in a mood. This is when I gave a price to fit the toilet and basin.

Returned to carry out the work, all sorted.

There was no indication I had hit a
heating pipe and I've no idea yet why I am only just hearing about it. I have said I will call him back tomorrow to discuss maters. (once I have advice from everyone here)

I haven't admitted to anything yet.
 
Shauncorbs, thanks that's what I was initially thinking but I know the minute I refuse to give them the money I'll be on court and may lose.
 
Its going to be hard and yes you can do without the hassle but I would be tempted to call her bluff, like we all have said , she should have given you chance to repair it , assuming that was what happened .
 
Thanks for all the replies so far everyone. It is possible this is genuine I don't think they are trying it on, the issue I have is them calling me and wanting money without the opportunity to repair.
 
I have no reason to lie to any of you.

Only other info is he text yesterday asking me to call, I called him back this afternoon and he said what had happened. I've text him back tonight saying call him tomorrow.
 
Shauncorbs, thanks that's what I was initially thinking but I know the minute I refuse to give them the money I'll be on court and may lose.

They still have to give you the option for you to repair

They can't say no give me the money and I will do the repair myself etc

Might be worth having a word / start the ball rolling with trading standards etc
 
Do they legally have to give me the chance to repair?

Yes but trading standards should confirm this

It's like buying a new car and the wheels falling off and going to your local garage to fix it

Then sending a bill to the manufacturer etc
 
Perfect, thanks for all the replies.

Her partner, who asked me to do the work is a good guy and that's why he has phoned me first. Doesn't mean I'm going to throw money at them though.

I'll check out trading standards and go from there. I don't want it to go to court. Is it worth me sending them a letter recorded delivery and explaining they should have given me an opportunity to repair etc?
 
I would speak to ts first and let them deal with it if they will
 
Sounds like worst case scenario is being slagged off online. Which you cannot guard against 100% no matter what you do.
 
They can’t take you to court for something that was not proven to be your fault, or at least you had to be given the first chance to rectify.
Tell her to take you to court, she won’t win.

Don’t worry about been slagged off to her mates. These things happen.
 
Thanks everyone, I'll speak to trading standards.

This customer has spent a lot of money on her house, whole place has been done up so I can understand she is frustrated but I'd be interested to know why the wc where I was working was left unfinished. I won't have any contact with them until I have spoken to TS.

Her partner doesn't live there, she paid for the work so after speaking to TS any future comms will go to her recorded delivery.

If I was her I'd be annoyed with the people who ran the heating pipes where the toilet was going.
 
Just be very careful what you say over the phone (Could be recording you) Don't put anything in writing that they can use against you, Bet the pig is a solicitor , I wont do work for them worse than Builders,
 
If it were me, I would sit still and wait for the photos and the copies of the invoices for the repairs.

I would say to the customer something like, 'just send me through the photos and invoices and I will get something sorted for you'

After you have received the photos and invoices, contact your insurance company and let them handle the situation.

CC the customer into the email you send to your insurance company.
Let them deal with your insurance company.

Try not to get too emotionally involved with the situation.
It sounds dodgy, so they may back off when you put a formal claim through your insurance, because they will have to prove they are not making a fraudulent claim.
 
Smells fishy
Wait for the pictures and invoices, may call the company they used to confirm.
 
Firstly, been there done it, got the chuffin tee shirt, had the endless sleepless nights and been to court.

Secondly, and more importantly some facts followed by potential advice based on my experience.
  1. They have a legal obligation to do a number of things. They should have notified you of the issue immediately it arose. No ifs, no buts. They should have given you the opportunity to resolve the issue IF it was 'reasonable' that the problem was of your making. Now here, best practice comes into play along with your experience or more specifically the experience of what they term a normal plumber. What is meant by that is; would a normal plumber have done what you did? Could a normal plumber have foreseen that UFH was installed under the pot? Judges are incredibly fair minded and I can tell you the likelihood here is that they will find in your favour on this particular issue.
  2. Even if she didn't want you back, they have an obligation to you to offer you the opportunity to resolve is as I said. That means you would have probably called upon a mate to do you a favour and at mates rates. The customers DOES NOT have the right to choose any Tom Dick or Harry to resolve it. Further, you have the right to both see and agree to any repairs and works you may be potentially liable for. You were not offered that.
  3. I get the impression she's effectively blackmailing you to pay out. DO NOT. Please please please get her to put all this Rubbish in writing, text or simply call her and get her to say it all again. BUY a recording app for your phone NOW as that can be used in evidence. This is potentially deformation of character and would effectively negate her whole claim as she'd be seen to be someone who is trying to extort from you.
DO NOT. DO NOT. DO NOT. DO NOT give in. A mistake has been made. However, you DO NOT Have xray vision. You cannot have known that there were UFH heating pipes under a pot. It is NOT industry practice to do that so you WOULD NOT in any reasonable circumstance have allowed for that.

She is trying to extort money from you when this is nothing more than a simple accident. She is wrong, wrong wrong and no court in the land will find for her A) it aint your fault and B) when she has behaved as she has.

What to do next?

First, start logging all the time and expense you incur dealing with it.

I would ask for all information including every bit of correspondence between all parties. Its called 'disclosure'. I would find out who the contractor is that fixed it and speak to them too. They will have been paid. RECORD everything said but do it discretely.

IF, she complies, IF she has been genuine, IF she has been reasonable then make her an offer of a part of the cost as a gesture of goodwill but be CLEAR that the offer is NOT tied to any admittance of guilt. Its called an offer without prejudice. Make sure its plain its a once only offer in full and final settlement.

If she goes off on one - take her to court. If she starts proceedings on you then let it happen. DO NOT engage a solicitor for the hearings. Get advice before hand but no more. When you turn up without a brief, the judge is legally obliged to support you to support yourself and believe me thats worth its weight in gold. Basically they do the work for you.

It isn't fun. it isn't clever and it will change you. However, do not let her beat you. You do not deserve it and the courts will not let her get away with tearing you apart.

If you want to talk just give me a call (David 07803 136613) but just don't let it get you down. You're in the right, she will not win and you'll get it sorted.
 
Dave wow thank you for that great reply.

Received pictures yesterday and a 6 second video clip. It does show I drilled through. Pipe.

Customers partner called today.

Apparently the plumber who did the repair said I should have checked for pipes - not sure how I would have done that, is it possible?

Said I should have stuck the toilet down with adhesive instead. I said if I stuck it down and it came loose I'd be in trouble for that if someone got injured and I hadn't screwed it.

Apparently the pipes have been there since the house was built.

They want £300. I said I'm not agreeing to anything, or admitting anything. I said I want a couple of days to seek advice.

I don't want to go to court.

I don't want to give them £300, it's more than I got for the job. I had to chase the basin pipes in the wall etc. Underpriced it my mistake but I don't want to be out of pocket further.

I will follow the advice given above.

I was going to call and say Im not accepting liability but I will give you £100 as a goodwill gesture.

I knew nothing of any of this and the repairs have been done before I was informed of the whole thing.
 
Could the pipe in the photos be any pipe or does it clearly show the tiled floor as you remember it, secondly why has it taken almost 2 months to show as a leak?
 
It is the floor where I was working.

I don't know why it's taken 2 months and they haven't said.

I'm disappointed it's happened. The thing that's bothering me the most is her. He is acting as a go between but I don't like how they are saying I have to pay. Especially since I wasn't given a chance to do anything about it. I said to him on the phone I could have sorted it or had someone sort it. He is being decent but he is saying I caused it so I have to pay.
 
Big long shot, just wondering if they have had the toilet changed since for whatever reason or your screws removed and longer screws been used?
It is the time delay I don't understand tbh.
 
Is it a pressurised or open vent system?
Copper pipe or plastic?
 
It all seems genuine that I have caused this. I don't know how it's taken so long to show, I don't know why they have not told me sooner.

They have said "you've caused the leak, you have to pay"

If they had told me about it, I would have sorted it on a day off so it would have cost me my time and minimal materials. If she was adamant she didn't want me in the house, I could have arranged for repairs to be done.

I don't see how they are allowed to have someone else do the work and bill me for it.

I'm going to speak to trading standards tomorrow then get as much info from the customer as possible. I'll try and avoid going to court but I'm not being bullied in to handing over £300 just like that.

I'm not happy with the way she has gone about things.
 
How could I have checked for pipes?

Am I supposed to check for pipes before every screw on every job?
 
Here is a picture sent of the repair.

79_1526230971663.jpeg
 

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