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LOL showing some age there mate. Never seen a gas fridge...

Would scrap the fire and buy a new one. Of if you cant afford it right now i would remove/cap off and wait. I know it was ok when installed but too easy for somthing to happen if ask me.
its only ncs, ar or id is a different matter
 
Thanks to everyone for the advice.
The firm is still flatly refusing to re-attend and reconnect the fire so I've had to register a complaint with Gas Safe.
Does anyone know what powers Gas Safe has or could I end up having to go to court ?
 
Thanks to everyone for the advice.
The firm is still flatly refusing to re-attend and reconnect the fire so I've had to register a complaint with Gas Safe.
Does anyone know what powers Gas Safe has or could I end up having to go to court ?

Im not sure how Gas Safe will deal with your complaint, it sounds to me like the engineers that attended your property do not fully understand how to deal with the situation and hopefully all gas safe needs to do is explain there mistake and it will get sorted.
 
I agree with both parties. If a customer mentions that they smell gas, then this is always cause for concern and investigation. If they have detected a major leak from the fire which has no thermocouple, then surely they would have isolated the fire at the pilot and checked again ( im sumizing they did this) , did they recheck for leaks after the fire was disconnected? especially that you could smell gas near the hob to begin with. I hate turning appliances off, I never go away and leave anyone with no contact or no solutions, and 9 times out of ten Id go back to make sure, specially when a customer is distraught. Darryl is right, NCS on fire, I think they should return to double check. Traci
 
be nice to hear an outcome to this please let us know how gas safe handle this you could get a second opinion from another gas safe installer but its going to cost you
 
I agree with both parties. If a customer mentions that they smell gas, then this is always cause for concern and investigation. If they have detected a major leak from the fire which has no thermocouple, then surely they would have isolated the fire at the pilot and checked again ( im sumizing they did this) , did they recheck for leaks after the fire was disconnected? especially that you could smell gas near the hob to begin with. I hate turning appliances off, I never go away and leave anyone with no contact or no solutions, and 9 times out of ten Id go back to make sure, specially when a customer is distraught. Darryl is right, NCS on fire, I think they should return to double check. Traci

Hi Traci,
No, they did not retest. Informally Gas Safe have told me that the method they used in doing the tightness test was faulty because they did not look at which appliances were connected before doing the test. When the test showed up the fire as supposedly leaking they did not investigate it but just immediately capped it off and put an 'ID' label on it. When I later told them that the fire had an uncontrolled pilot light they reacted with surprise and
then got very defensive saying that a fire without an FSD is dangerous and must stay unconnected. In our last conversation they said the same thing but then said that they didn't care if I got someone else to reconnect it.
This I think shows that their concern is not for our safety but just for their own stubborn refusal to admit that they have made a mistake.
 
Welcome to our world Chris,

Gas safe are more concerned with covering their own backs than actually resolving issues. A fire without an FSD is NCS, but there is no reason why it can't stay connected.

You can try the HSE and see what they say if this has really annoyed you. Or, call gas safe back and tell them you want it in writing that in their opinion the fire is dangerous, they may change their stance once asked to put it in writing.

I've rang them a couple of times and I've never been satisfied with the outcome.
 
Hi Darryl - Sorry my post must have been rushed - it wasn't Gas Safe who said the fire was dangerous - as far as I can tell Gas Safe agree with me. One of Gas Safe's technical advisors said that the method used for the tightness test was faulty, and that the engineers should have closed the pilot light first and after failing to do this, they should have retested when I made them aware of the issue.
It was the engineers who got defensive and won't admit their mistake.
 
Oh, I see. So what have Gas safe said they are going to do about it then?
 
Oh, I see. So what have Gas safe said they are going to do about it then?
I only submitted the complaint yesterday so I'm waiting to see what happens.
They did say they are only concerned with safety and that I might have to go to trading standards about this firm.
 
I only submitted the complaint yesterday so I'm waiting to see what happens.
They did say they are only concerned with safety and that I might have to go to trading standards about this firm.

If you get someone else in for a second opinion, they may say the same as the other firm! There doesn't appear to be anything in 'unsafe situations procedures' regarding appliances without an F.S.D. http://www.User PlumbersForums.net ... Edition 6 - publication web version V1 1.pdf
If you could get it in writing from Gas safe (an email) that the appliance is safe to use if all the other checks have been carried out correctly then you can show it to any engineer and he can verify before signing his life away! If anyone can find an answer to this in any regs etc (which at the end of the day, we have to follow to the letter) then post it on here and we can all move on!
 
If you get someone else in for a second opinion, they may say the same as the other firm! There doesn't appear to be anything in 'unsafe situations procedures' regarding appliances without an F.S.D. http://www.User PlumbersForums.net ... Edition 6 - publication web version V1 1.pdf
If you could get it in writing from Gas safe (an email) that the appliance is safe to use if all the other checks have been carried out correctly then you can show it to any engineer and he can verify before signing his life away! If anyone can find an answer to this in any regs etc (which at the end of the day, we have to follow to the letter) then post it on here and we can all move on!
There really is no grey area here. If the appliance, by design, operates without an FSD then it is NCS. No if's nor buts. If all other safety checks are good it perfectly safe to use. I dont like to say the engineer is incompetent as he/she appears to be erring on side of safety, but lack of knowledge of the regs/standards is itself incompetent and they have caused at least one member the public a lot of needless stress and hassle.
 
There really is no grey area here. If the appliance, by design, operates without an FSD then it is NCS. No if's nor buts. If all other safety checks are good it perfectly safe to use. I dont like to say the engineer is incompetent as he/she appears to be erring on side of safety, but lack of knowledge of the regs/standards is itself incompetent and they have caused at least one member the public a lot of needless stress and hassle.

It's good to find someone on here who knows everything!!:p
 
you cant know everything, but you can ask questions if you are unsure. Ie. phone gas safe, read your books, dare i say it.... phone a friend.

i knew everything once, but i forgot to write it down. ;)
 
if your memory is anything like mine your probably right. I have often got to work and forgotten to pick up my apprentice on the way. lol
 
where am i? have gone to the wrong address before now,my apprentice is like a loaf of bread hes a THICK CUT
 
my very first apprentice had his moments, i once gave him my A to Z to direct me to the next address when working in cannock. about half an hour later we finally got there and i then realised we were only two streets away from where we had started. that was the last time he got to use an A to Z.
 
where am i? have gone to the wrong address before now,my apprentice is like a loaf of bread hes a THICK CUT

Ive walked out of customers front door, gone to van for something then walked straight into next doors !
 
i spent a couple of minutes standing with the van remote cursing that it wouldn open the van then realised my van was on the other side of the road
 
after having read the comments, this is an interesting situation however if you look at the gas industry unsafe situation procedure booklet.. part2 section 9.3 (general). this is not full quotation but is a summary it is saying,

" some old appliances exist which do not conform to current standards and as such need to be assessed individualy, as standards have changed due to research and incidents investigation. it is the gas operative who makes the idividual assesment. if an existing installation is not in accordance with current regs etc it should be considered to be NCS, providing it can only be used without consitiuting a danger to anyone and is not likley to do so."

Now could this be considered safe or is there a possibility of the pilot going out and causing a gas escape that is the fundamental question. If there is a possibility then by sub clause 6.4 you may upgrade to an AR. Again this is down to the individual who is after all the person signing to say it is or is not safe.

After all if this went up in a fire ball would the HSE look at this reg and ask the question do you consider that the system was safe in light of the recent explosion? all you gas engineers who have been doing this for a number of years I am sure have seen some real poor jobs and as such has this engineer not endevoured to ensure this customer was safe? did he leave the premises safer or more dangerous? Is saftey the main aim as a gas engineer. As for HOBs without FSD would you put your hob gas on and go out to work or on holiday? and that is why they are a different prospect.

As you stated you are thinking of changing this gas fire, my advice would be to follow that line then when you go out you can rest assured that your children/family are safe!
 
If you have explained the situation in full, strongly recommending the appliance be removed, you have acted responsibly. Get all this down on paperwork and I would be happy. It cannot be 'AR' in my opinion as no fault exists to classify it as such and it certainly is not 'ID' giving them the right to cut it off.
Interpreting it as you have put it would 'AR' every gas fire out there as they all have a risk of burning you-there is no fault to classify 'AR', but there is still a risk. The GIUSP is only a guideline to work by and give us engineers a help in classifying certain situations.
 
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