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bobby5156

I am in the process of trying to get qualified and would like some help trying to understand what you are entitled to do if you hold Part P Defined Scope.

Is it correct that as a plumber all you need is Part P defined scope to conduct electrical works (on any plumbing type installations) and can self certify the work.

Or do you need to have done 17th edition wiring regs also.

I have been searching the net to get answer but each training provider sayd something different and are very vague, any help would be appreciated.

Bobby
 
can and worms spring to mind , fella its a grey area and many different views. im booked on it end of next month
 
lol this is what i thought bod, what do you believe you will be able to do at the end of the course, eg do you think you can do electrical installations of say showers, thermostats etc and self certify or do the installation and get a sparky to certify it?

How much you paying and who you doing it with/

Cheers Bobby
 
ÂŁ600 i think it was at brooke house training , i believe nothing till its written down but im mainly doing it to improve my understanding of electrics. remember its only a build reg
 
As has been said this is such a can of worms, you will get told many different things here. I did all the training to do part P and even went out with a couple of sparks, but once I added up the cost of tester, getting registered and all the annual charges it just wasn't worth keeping it up. I rang around all the governing bodies and spoke to them about getting registered. Elecsa were by far the most accommodating, so my advice give them a call. If I'm honest I can't really remember the ins and outs of it but it seems to be a matter of opinion whether we really need it or not. I think having the defined lets you run spurs off and do rcd's for showers etc, so I suppose it depends whether you have a tame sparks or not
 
You don't need your 17th edition wiring regs for part p. Part P will cover you for minor work ie adding a skt to a ring main changing a light fitting, adding a fused spur for a boiler. It wont cover special areas ie wet areas ie outside or bathrooms. These require CG 2391 or 2392 which is schedules of testing and self certification then being a member of niceic ect.... or if you have the 2391/2392 you can register jobs through building control.
 
i believe/ have been informed that after july you will need 17th and inspection and testing to register with competant persons scheme to do anything, so need to do part p before then and sign up
 
[h=3]What you will learn:[/h]
  • Applicable Building Regulations
  • Electrical safety legislation, regulations, standards and terminology
  • Enabling you to alter and install electrical circuits in association with your primary task of work.
  • Over-view of BS7671:2008 IEE Wiring regulations (17th Ed.) and on-site guide.
  • Installation of, and alteration of domestic wiring circuits, i.e. sockets, lighting, heating and earthing arrangements.
  • Safe isolation procedures
  • Electrical test procedures
  • Cable and component selection
  • Installation and replacement of electrical components
  • Identifying unsafe electrical situations
  • Building notification forms
  • Special locations
  • New circuit requirements
  • Completion of Electrical Installation Certificate
  • Completion of Minor Electrical Installation Works Certificate
[h=3]Qualifications achieved:[/h]
Electrics Defined Scope Level 3 Part P B Scope Certificate (BPEC

thats the spec of mine
 
You can apply for part p registration with just the 17th edition (which proves nothing) weather you pass the assessment is another thing

It also differs between registering bodies from the niceic / elecsa etc
 
You don't need your 17th edition wiring regs for part p. Part P will cover you for minor work ie adding a skt to a ring main changing a light fitting, adding a fused spur for a boiler. It wont cover special areas ie wet areas ie outside or bathrooms. These require CG 2391 or 2392 which is schedules of testing and self certification then being a member of niceic ect.... or if you have the 2391/2392 you can register jobs through building control.

You have defined scope part P or full scope. I think to register for either you are going to need 17th edition and join governing body.
 
I carried out full scope in the summer took 10 days to complete. I didnt need to carry out wiring regs (17th edition) for the qualification. There is no need to join a governing body if you're part P as your only qualified to sign off minor work, which isnt notifiable. The main point of joining a governing body is to register your work (non minor), schedules of tests, major work etc. A bit like the gas register. Your only qualified to sign off your own work or others work if you have CG 2391 Inspection, Testing & Certification. If you have 2391 and are competent you can either join a body NAPWT NI EIC etc to register work. Or register each job with building control after gaining written approval prior to each job you intend to register ie ball ache. Hope this helps clear things up
 
glad someone bought this up as personally for me its on topic.

i have 2 years electrical exp but no tickets.

can i still run a boiler spur and change a shower after july?.

do you or will you need to notify any minor works after july?.

do you need 17th after july if you have a part p defined?
 
Every time I have this conversation, everyone has different opinions. And that includes speaking to different training centres, and even governing bodies. I don't know about the changes in July, I basically found a sparks and have an arrangement. At the moment you 100% need full scope part P to run a new shower because it goes to a bathroom and that is a notifiable area. I have heard tell that if you are replacing like for like, I.E. you don'y have to change cable size, then your ok. But when I read the regs it seemed pretty clear, if you touch anything in the bathroom then you need full scope. IMHO opinion rpg 80n doesn't have full scope, otherwise he would be able to self certify in those areas. But that may well be different centres and different bodies using different terminology. When I phoned elecsa/niceic etc last year they wanted 17th edition, and your vrq or part p as some call it. Basically the whole system is rubbish. But also 17th edition is only a couple of days. The real annoyance is spending out on testers etc.
 
i have 2 years electrical exp but no tickets.

can i still run a boiler spur and change a shower after july?.

do you or will you need to notify any minor works after july?.

do you need 17th after july if you have a part p defined?

I have 30 years electrical experience but am not qualified to do any of it. You need a minor works for a spur on swapping a shower.
I'm currently paying a spark to come out and beep what i fit (if he is there in time he fits it).
It costs me a few quid a month (more than the course and a tester would cost). I am seriously considering doing it if i can get the time.
 
Thanks for those replies and I hope it may have helped others, I can see this is an immotive topic and can only hope that if there are changes in July, they also make the situation clearer lol
 
Part P defined scope doesn't allow you to add a circuit to a full up consumer unit i.e. splitting the meter tails and fitting a CU to feed a shower. you need full scope for that, one extra day.

I did mine a few weeks ago and found it very interesting only to find out that to do anything useful like self-certification I need to also do the 17th edition and register with one of the bodies like ELECSA, NICEIC etc.

It makes me laugh how GS engineers are looked down upon by sparkies who's registration bodies aren't even statutory.
MM
 
ok, i mean 30 years exp and 2+ years in an employed role with an electrical contractor.lol.
 
This is obviously as described a can of worms lol, does it not make you think, I understand that we have to have a safe system of ensuring people are qualified correctly to do works, but:

As someone wanting to train in the industry and plan a career its so confusing getting clear answers ------ Is this just another way of allowing training providers to get more money from hard working tradesmen????????

I am finding it very confusing how, what and when to qualify in different areas, sorry just thought it worth stating
 
Bobby
You got in one mare, all this legislation , either real or imagined, only serves to put money in the pockets of training providers, certification bodies and half-assed self-serving 'professional trades associations'
MM
 
If you do a part p course you can do minor work i.e. run a single spur or use an existing supply for a replacement appliance, you don't need to join any bodies or register the work. If you want to do more than this, then it gets more involved with further courses. I hope this clears things up ....... a bit.
 
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Is there a course that teaches you the course that you need?.
Then of course, is it mandatory you do the course?.
 
you really need to do the mandatory course which will alllow you to do the course that allows you to do the statutory course IMHO :)
 
Will part p allow me to legally wire full heating systems from a spur onwards?
 
Will part p allow me to legally wire full heating systems from a spur onwards?

as said yes it will , if you do the full scope you can rewire a house. just looking at a meterl meter 440 nicker

edit - forgot to add i did the theory friday and do the practicval in the morning
 
Just putting it out there...

From what I understand the Part P courses are not for any qualification, those that say they are either "Part P defined/full" qualified are not. Part P is part of Building Regs... to do minor works that don't need to be notified (socket spurs) you don't need to be registered with any of the bodies, but you do need to be "competent". To do works where notification is required, you need to let building control prior to the work being started, or be register with one of the appropriate bodies. Napit is probably one the easiest to join, and offers both full and defined.

Full requires; appropriate qualifications such as 17th Ed

Defined requires; A less qualification, an EAL Domestic
Installers Qualification.

in addition to these with all bodies you are require to have insurance, tools and a copy of the regs.

It is important to remember you must be competent, as you do with gas. If you don't feel competent, get someone who does. Knowlegde is good, but expereience is better.
 
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