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  2. WARNING! We do NOT provide advice related to Gas or other fuels to people who are not currently an official registered Heating Engineer. Do NOT ask for advice related to boiler repairs or installs. You need to find a heating engineer instead.

    Either seeking or providing advice on UKPlumbersForums.co.uk may result in your account being suspended or removed. These rules are in place to prevent deaths, which can easily occur from messing with heating systems when you're not qualified to do so.

Discuss notice gas safety related advice in the Gas Safe Register Forum - Public Forum area at UKPlumbersForums.co.uk.

  1. Billy Bob Bob

    Billy Bob Bob Guest

    [h=2][/h]
    sorry but we cant condone giving out gas safety related advice to non qualified people this includes all aspects of gas installation and repair,if we see anyone giving out advice that we feel may compromise safety we will close that thread
    thank you for your understanding,and dont be offended if we close your thread but at the end of the day safety does not have a price​



     
    • Like Like x 12
  2. Bernie2

    Bernie2 Guest

    How silly! Information and education is the way forward. What if boiler manufacturers stopped putting installation and service manuals in with their products? The regs say they must be left with the householder. People can read they can simply DIY from them if they wanted to. We just look daft not advising people in the correct way. They can also download the Gas Regs if they want. Why all the secrecy?
     
  3. Dotty

    Dotty Guest

    How many times do yo have to be told?

    If people want to kill themselves that's entirely up to them. They won't be doing it with the assistance from these forums. And I've about had it with you keep questioning the forum rules.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  4. SimonG

    SimonG Trusted Plumber

    Gasmans comment was over a year ago!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Ray Stafford

    Ray Stafford Guest

    This does make me chuckle.

    Bernie's point of view is not without merit. Like lots of things in life, its not a black and white issue.

    However, those who have the responsibility of running this forum have decided on this forum's policy, which has been made crystal clear.

    And the great democratic tool that is the internet means that Bernie can go and set up his own forum, with his own preferred rules and policies. And if more people like his forum than this forum, then he will get the visits and the advertising revenue. And potentially the lawsuits.

    Carry on old chap. Or to use the vernacular - "knock yerself aahhhtt".
     
    • Like Like x 7
  6. Reg Man

    Reg Man Trusted Plumber GSR

    I think there is basic generic gas safety advice we can share with public, but when it comes down to fixing a problem then the shutters are down and nothing can be revealed.
     
  7. gassafe

    gassafe Plumber GSR

    It's a good rule, I like it.. Lets keep,the gas talk the gas forum!

    Next up lets all make a push to make it impossible to buy a gas component without proof of gas safe membership :)
     
    • Like Like x 6
  8. solutions

    solutions Plumber GSR

    :agree: no spares without gas safe id. No gas rated issolaters without id, no cooker hose without id, no gas fired boilers water heaters or fires. Serial numbers for parts and appliances logged by retailer against purchasers gas safe reg. No escaping shoddy work by registeted engineers when the parts are traceable.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  9. Ray Stafford

    Ray Stafford Guest

    OK, I'll take the other side of this argument. :)

    Bearing in mind our business model, you might expect me to be strongly in favour of this concept, but after thinking about it for a couple of decades, I have come to the conclusion that its a bad idea.

    There are two main reasons - one of principle and one of practicatily.

    Firstly, we live in a free country. The default position ought to be that anything is allowed, and that if things that are banned or restricted we have these controls because there is clear and demonstrable evidence that by limiting an individual freedom, there is a greater benefit to society as a whole.

    We have several levels or degrees of restriction.

    1) Very dangerous items, like firearms, explosives, some drugs and a handful of other items are controlled at point of ownership with laws that are generally enforced pretty thoroughly and are only allowed to be held by people who can demonstrate a clear need for them, and has the relevant protections and controls to stop them from falling into the wrong hands.

    2) Another category, including motor vehicles and gas appliances, are free to own, but are controlled by licencing the skill of operators at point of use (ie driving licence, gas safe quals) and is usually enforced by exception - we wait until there is a problem before we deal with enforcement. Otherwise you would have to prove you had a licence every time you got in your car, or bought petrol.

    3) There is a final group - including alcohol and cigarettes, which we acknowledge as a society are dangerous, but our only attempt to control them is to prohibit the sale to under 18s. This is barely enforced at all.

    What is being suggested is that gas spares and appliances are so dangerous that they should be moved from category two up to category one (along with firearms and class A drugs). I simply don't see the benefit to society that this would bring. Although every death is tragic, there simply are not enough deaths due to preventable DIY gas work to justify such a draconian change. If you really think that every life is so precious than any restriction is worth it to save just one - then you should be arguing for a 20mph speed limit on all roads, or a total ban on alcohol and tobacco!

    My second point is a purely practical one. Banning the sale of gas spares does not mean that every job will be done by a competent engineer. In some cases it simply makes it more likely that a DIYer will use an inappropriate product. Can't buy a gas cooker hose? Don't worry, a length of garden hose and two jubilee clips will do! Can't buy a gas-rated valve? Never mind, use one designed for water.

    Just as prohibition created more problems than it solved, I think that this would actually lead to more DIY disasters than it would prevent.

    Let me offer an alternative solution. Spend less than 10th of what implementing such controls would cost on:

    a) a really good and sustained public information campaign about the dangers of DIY gas work
    b) prosecuting substantially more cases of shoddy and dangerous workmanship

    I'm very sorry to say that if we could track back the origins of all the "hall of shame" jobs, many would not be DIY. They would be done by "qualified" blokes.
     
    • Like Like x 4
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 31, 2013
  10. Killy Bing

    Killy Bing Plumber GSR

    not to mention the amount of spares outlets would reduce to a few big boys over night, reducing competition and allowing them to push prices up.

    not to mention boiler prices would likely rise as the customer couldn't get them directly, the merchants would know that they would be the only avenue of getting the boilers and milk the opportunity ;)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. tamz

    tamz Guest

    In theory that is a good idea but it will never happen. I'm afraid not enough people die of botched diy gas work to make the politico's blink an eye. Maybe 2 a week for a year or 2 might get them to sit up and take notice.

    On a similar issue it is harder to buy parts for a sprinkler system but that seems to be a closed shop due to insurance requirements.

    Maybe the insurance companies could be the ones with the "power" to deter it.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  12. Killy Bing

    Killy Bing Plumber GSR

    Some insurance companies only guarantee oil tanks if they are bunded, have a bund built, if metal "serviced".
    i noticed with lloyds they want you to replace the oil tank before or at the end of its design life.

    if the tanks design life if 10 years and it leaks at 10 years and a day, you're on your own.
     
  13. hammers4spanner

    hammers4spanner Plumber GSR

    The arguement of gas parts only sold to gsr is in theory a good arguement however if you compare our industry to mechanics where any old busy body can buy car parts and repair then isnt that just as dangerous??

    money rules imho when it comes to this arguement suppliers will supply to anyone

    and as tamz says the govt look upon our industry as well practiced and run as very few deaths
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Ray Stafford

    Ray Stafford Guest

    Just as an aside, although we don't sell retail, we sell an enormous amount of gas appliances to organisations other than GSR engineers or firms.

    Councils
    Housing associations
    MOD
    Hospitals
    Schools
    Universities

    I don't know what the overall proportions are, but I bet there are many hundreds of thousands of gas appliances that are purchased by institutions, and then fitted by qualified subbies.

    Speaking as a tax-payer, to be honest I don't want these purchases to have to be made through a GSR subbie, with their markup.
     
  15. hammers4spanner

    hammers4spanner Plumber GSR

    You will never stop the diy numpty from attempting a repair most peeps have common sense a few are just idiots .

    I had a cust phone me up as they had just moved into a new house and was asked to check gas safety etc etc

    the cust watched me do a TT and i informed him they had a drop so i isolated the fire in front room and proceeded to carry out another test, i just happened to peer throught he window and what was the idiot cust doing , using a lighter around the gas pipe !!!!!!

    idiots like that you will never stop
     
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