Not paying for a job

[rocketmanbkk]

Id do a list in writing of what you what fixed/cleaned etc.

Then he knows exactly what you're not happy with in writing

Tell him he's got 1 last chance to sort the list out. Tell him you're not paying if anything leaks or the list isn't complete. You're being reasonable there.

If he doesn't agree tell him you're see him in court & then close verbal contact.

As for another person to rectify, he'll need to agree.

How much does he want for materials? Maybe pay that if reasonable & with a list from him. Then it's a labour dispute.

What's he saying about the bent flexi? There's no excuse for that.

You need to decide if you think he's serious about court.

Most decent people know if they've done a good job or not. Maybe he's bluffing, who knows. Maybe tell him you think court is the best option??

 

[rocketmanbkk]

Yes, sorry, I have an Aqualisa Quartz Digital with Bath filler. So there are no taps it comes out of the overflow to fill the bath with a processing unit in the loft and a diverter to control the switch between bath fill and shower.
Leak I believe is not silicone related but more to do with the cracked grout and wobbling tiles. Although I was told that your should always fill a bath before using silicone to see the bath to the tiles. This was not done.

If the leak is from cracked grout/wobbly tiles it should be a simple fix. Cut silicone out, cut offending grout out, remove wobbly tiles, remove tile adhesive, pva offending area, re tile, return to regroup & silicone, get paid & never call him again.

 

[rocketmanbkk]

* re grout not regroup although this does seem like a battle!

 

[joni os]

Small cracks can suck a seemingly disproportionate amount of water, its called capillary action. What is the background for the tiles, as this may be the starting point for rectification. Shower screen should not be sealed internally as water entering between glass and frame needs exit path.

 

[TripleD]

Small cracks can suck a seemingly disproportionate amount of water, its called capillary action. What is the background for the tiles, as this may be the starting point for rectification. Shower screen should not be sealed internally as water entering between glass and frame needs exit path.

Shower screen according to fitter should always be sealed inside and outside, when I asked the manufacturer as fitter suggested this was the cause of the leak, they said exactly the same, so he returned, removed and refitted screen. Trouble is each removal and refitting of the screen now amounts to about 4 times, and each time the silicone residue is building up and now making it look a mess.

 

[SimonG]

No idea.



Ok, point taken. Like the facebook quote



I think the £1400 represents that I'm not happy with the work.

Pictures and video's uploading soon then....

Oh its poor.

 

[SimonG]

If the leak is from cracked grout/wobbly tiles it should be a simple fix. Cut silicone out, cut offending grout out, remove wobbly tiles, remove tile adhesive, pva offending area, re tile, return to regroup & silicone, get paid & never call him again.

Not pva, never pva.

 

[rocketmanbkk]

That's what I was taught! Plasterer mate, superb tiler

 

[TripleD]

Not pva, never pva.

That's what I was taught! Plasterer mate, superb tiler

Walls are hemp board (Compressed straw between 2 sheets of paper) if that makes any difference?

 

[lame plumber]

awful plumbing, kinked flexi, which will burst idc.

silicone everywhere, an utter mess, no need for that at all

pay any material costs and make him sling his hook. He cant remove goods, criminal damage let him go to court, you can use another plumber to do the work and let a judge decide if further costs due, have a chat with citizens advice.

 

[joni os]

The hemp board is responsible for cracks in tiling as it is unstable background. PVA good for dry areas but breaks down in wet conditions. Only come across hemp board once and that was Shotley is that where you are.

 

[jonnyswamp]

The amount of water showing on that video suggests to me that it's leaking pipe work from diverter valve to shower head outlet, either way he's had enough chances to rectify, get someone else

 

[TripleD]

The hemp board is responsible for cracks in tiling as it is unstable background. PVA good for dry areas but breaks down in wet conditions. Only come across hemp board once and that was Shotley is that where you are.

No, I'm in Ipswich but same side of the town as Shotley. Any suggestions? Rebuild the wall with stud work? or could you leave the wall in place and plaster board over then tile to that?

The amount of water showing on that video suggests to me that it's leaking pipe work from diverter valve to shower head outlet, either way he's had enough chances to rectify, get someone else

That was our first thought, but the water in the video, the really bad waterfall is on the back wall and there is no water pipe there.
Divertor is in the loft with two copper pipes coming out. one you can see ending with a joint that attaches to the bath fill. The other existing through a tile into the shower pipe/head. This I suppose could be leaking if the cracked grout is not the cause.

 

[joni os]

Some plumbers can tile, some tilers can plumb. This is a case of the inexperienced meeting the unexpected. With modern powershowers even plaster can not be relied on. Do not waste money trying to make good existing. Rip out and start again. What you pay is between you and the plumber but as other have said even plumbing is defective. As a minimum, fix 13mm tilebacker board to wall prior to tiling. Screw to studs, not hemp.

 

[TripleD]

Some plumbers can tile, some tilers can plumb. This is a case of the inexperienced meeting the unexpected. With modern powershowers even plaster can not be relied on. Do not waste money trying to make good existing. Rip out and start again. What you pay is between you and the plumber but as other have said even plumbing is defective. As a minimum, fix 13mm tilebacker board to wall prior to tiling. Screw to studs, not hemp.

The Hemp board doesn't have studs to screw to, so are you saying a wall replacement is better?

 

[stevetheplumber]

personally if that was my work i would get a job in tescos

 

[hammers4spanner]

That work is pants and aint from any decent plumber

 

[IND_Nick]

The whole install looks poor and unfortunately the only way to fix the leak would be to start again, silicone on grout is not a solution. As it has already been stated I would talk to Citizens advice or a consumer lawyer to get the facts right but no one should pay for workmanship this poor.
As said everyone gets the odd leak or something that doesn't go right bit this is terrible from top to bottom. Good luck with it and hopefully you find a decent tradesman to put it all right.

 

[joni os]

Building new wall will be disruptive. Fix 18mm ply, floor to ceiling, and screw tilebacker board to ply. Ply can be fixed to stramit with plugs and adhesive, and screwed through to pads recessed into reverse side of wall. Reinforce joints, scrim, in backer board prior to tiling.
As alternative you could consider shower panels, !0mm faced ply. these would fix to stramit with adhesive.

 

[Stanios]

Hi Triple! Sorry you had such a terrible experience. I also feel sorry for your contractor because if only he knew how to silicon properly he would have gotten paid. I suspect your bath leak is coming from a poor seal.

A good plumber would know to silicone bone dry surfaces only and to tile after fitting the bath so tiles sit on top. If this goes to court please keep us updated and best of luck!

 

[Tonycane]

How did you find this so called plumber? Recommendation or on a web site? Did you see any previous work or ask to see any qualifications/ trade memberships?

 

[firemant]

Rocketman, with respect, I think you are being a bit harsh in the OP. Assuming he is telling the truth re the newness of the product, I probably would not pay for the parts. At the very least, I would be deducting the cost of the ruined product supplied by me.
RM, can you honestly say that the work looks like that of a reasonable tradesman, let alone one at the top his trade.?
I am not a plumber, but a Gas Service Engineer, and HATE bathroom work etc. But I would be embarrassed to put my name to that pile of rubbish.
That said, we know that we only ever hear one side of an argument, but pictures do speak volumes.

 

[TripleD]

How did you find this so called plumber? Recommendation or on a web site? Did you see any previous work or ask to see any qualifications/ trade memberships?

It was on the local street life forum with some recommendations. Saw pictures of his work, apparently been a plumber for 25odd years and lived locally. Didn't see physically any work and didn't see or ask for qualifications. My fault there.

 

[rocketmanbkk]

Rocketman, with respect, I think you are being a bit harsh in the OP. Assuming he is telling the truth re the newness of the product, I probably would not pay for the parts. At the very least, I would be deducting the cost of the ruined product supplied by me.
RM, can you honestly say that the work looks like that of a reasonable tradesman, let alone one at the top his trade.?
I am not a plumber, but a Gas Service Engineer, and HATE bathroom work etc. But I would be embarrassed to put my name to that pile of rubbish.
That said, we know that we only ever hear one side of an argument, but pictures do speak volumes.

That's your opinion.

It's up to the op what he wants to do. It's gone from a leak & dodgy silicone to putting in new walls etc.& ripping everything out.

For £1400 compared to other quotes of £2500 imo I think someone thought he was getting a deal.

I ain't involved & as said wouldn't wanna be the one to rectify unless it was all ripped out & started again but it'd cost the right money for the right job & I'd want a depo up front!

I wish the op the best. The job looks crap as we can all see.

 

[TripleD]

That's your opinion.

It's up to the op what he wants to do. It's gone from a leak & dodgy silicone to putting in new walls etc.& ripping everything out.

For £1400 compared to other quotes of £2500 imo I think someone thought he was getting a deal.

I ain't involved & as said wouldn't wanna be the one to rectify unless it was all ripped out & started again but it'd cost the right money for the right job & I'd want a depo up front!

I wish the op the best. The job looks crap as we can all see.

The initial quote was for £2500. The invoice he provided after I refused to pay was for £1400. I paid £340 directly to electrician that was part of initial quote. To date that's £1740.

I wasn't after a deal, I was after a good job, which is far from what I got.

The walls being ripped out is a question and advice that I'm taking on board with reference to cracked grout and wobbly tiles. Not saying that's what I'm doing but surely must be a consideration.

 

[rocketmanbkk]

Rocketman, with respect, I think you are being a bit harsh in the OP. Assuming he is telling the truth re the newness of the product, I probably would not pay for the parts. At the very least, I would be deducting the cost of the ruined product supplied by me.
RM, can you honestly say that the work looks like that of a reasonable tradesman, let alone one at the top his trade.?
I am not a plumber, but a Gas Service Engineer, and HATE bathroom work etc. But I would be embarrassed to put my name to that pile of rubbish.
That said, we know that we only ever hear one side of an argument, but pictures do speak volumes.

Also Pal did I say it looked reasonable?

No, I never, it looks like he's done it himself with no practise ever.

The job looks crap.

 

[rocketmanbkk]

What you need is someone in to look & tell you exactly what's wrong & what's needed.

It's all well & good trying to get advice on a forum but it's too difficult as its all - what if this & what about that.

You've had lots of advice & im sure you've spoken to friends etc. about it.

The bathroom needs attention & fixing to your standard that's for sure. You wanted a job done & it's no good.

As I said, if you feel so strongly that you don't want this chap back then you need to get someone else in soon to sort it & if it ends up in court then you fight your battle.

Good luck. I hope it gets sorted.

 

[joni os]

The plumber should have consulted you as soon as stramit was discovered. You obviously didn't realize it was unsuitable for tiling but as a professional he should have. In any tiling work it is essential to have a stable background.
Should you receive a County Court claim, be sure to defend within the time limit and put in counter claim for whole cost of new work. The original claimant must also defend the counter claim within the time scale. If he fails to do this, seek a judgement by default and you will be awarded the counter claim without appearing in court.
As the counter claim will exceed the original the "plumber" would be stupid to pursue you through the court.

 

[TripleD]

Thanks everyone. As Rocketman says I need to get someone professional in to review and quote, but the advice from everyone is much appreciated.

 

[joni os]

You have posted on a plumber's forum suggesting you don't pay your plumber. No one has attacked you. After this, appearing in court before a neutral judge should hold no fears.

 

[TripleD]

You have posted on a plumber's forum suggesting you don't pay your plumber. No one has attacked you. After this, appearing in court before a neutral judge should hold no fears.

Lol

 

[plumben]

Thanks everyone. As Rocketman says I need to get someone professional in to review and quote, but the advice from everyone is much appreciated.

personally when im asked to provide a qoute for a bathroom i tell all my customers that standard is between £3000-£6000 depending on the work and materials the customer wants
as i do everything apart from any plastering and final decoration

My advice would be to rip out and start again, all walls need to be solid if tiles are going on any movement will result in cracked tiles, although you can use shower wall/wet wall instead of tiles, less joints

 

[julesverne]

Shocking work. I wouldnt pay him a penny and certainly never get him back and never ever use PVA for tiling or plastering for that matter

 

[joni os]

PVA ok for plastering. Controls suction on porous surfaces and aids adhesion when skimming old plaster. Just don't use in continuous damp conditions. SBR for damp and mixing with cement based tiling adhesive for additional bond.

 

[REDSAW]

seen better jobs done by a builder, joiner, tiler, sparky landscape gardener taxi driver i know!.

must pay him for materials on production of cost only receipt there un-paid for goods!.
dont have to pay for labour charge but can charge him for job to be rectified.

the silicone can be pealed off chrome with thumb.
the rest wants ripping and re-doing though. start with water supplies and check for leaks before anything else is installed.

as for the tiles, i would fit pvc shower boards and glue to wall, that would never leak if done properly. it would take me a day to do that at half the price of tiles you bought.
timber and batten the bath/shower so it dont move and leave for a couple of days to set.

job done!.

btw, the leak might be coming from the screen upright section. not filling the base before fitting gives an un-detected leak that runs along the bath. sealing inside makes it worse as the section fillswith water through glass seals and other places.