non registered oftec engineer

[confused]

Hi
I recently have had a new oil boiler fitted.

I checked for the Oftec logo.

The heating engineer that did the job I now find was not Oftec registered, although the company and the boss were.

The boss possible spent less than 5% of the time required to complete the job at the property. I now have major problems with the job.

Is it normal for a non registered engineer to do the job, when the company shows registration. I feel mislead as I looked out for a registered company, and thought this meant that all engineers would be. The job has not yet been signed off

Thanks

 

[Best]

I think all that matters is that the job is done to regs & signed off by someone that is registered, so to keep the warranty.
The major problems you say you have they should sort them. What went wrong?

This should be posted in oil thread.

 

[Best]

Forgot to mention that just because a company or individual is registered with oftec, doesn't sadly mean they will do a proper job. Recommendation is also a help in choosing someone you hope will do a professional job without needing to ask them to fix their work.

 

[Killy Bing]

Personally im oftec trained but i havent registered, im always with my boss for commissioning and servicing so he registers and does the paper work.

its down to the quality of the engineer.
being oftec registered doesn't mean you're going to do a quality job

what are the issues?

 

[dontknowitall]

There are so many ifs that can be applied to this it'll be much easier to tell us what the issue(s) is/(are) as some might not be oftec related (e.g. water problems).

 

[confused]

Personally im oftec trained but i havent registered, im always with my boss for commissioning and servicing so he registers and does the paper work.



So are you left alone to do, say a 10 day job, with the odd 5 minute site visit by the boss, and then the boss just signs the job off.

its down to the quality of the engineer.
being oftec registered doesn't mean you're going to do a quality job

what are the issues?

Too many issues to mention. My starting point is that I sourced an oftec enginneer and the company sent a non registered one.

 

[SimonG]

Too many issues to mention. My starting point is that I sourced an oftec enginneer and the company sent a non registered one.

As long as the commissioning engineer is oftec registered M. Mouse could install your boiler. You've gone to the bother of posting so list out a few of the issues. Make, Model and a few photo's may get yourself some help.

 

[dontknowitall]

And/or whether the problems are about the boiler, the hot water cylinder, the zone valves, the water, the oil tank or feeding the cat.

 

[Dotty]

Exactly, even though you've gone through the bother of contracting an seemingly reputable company, they don't legally have to send an OFTEC registered guy, although the commissioning engineer should be.

As said before, don't leeave us hanging. What are your concerns?

Oh, and moved to the Oil Forum.

 

[dontknowitall]

...Oh, and moved to the Oil Forum.

Oh.

Cheers.

Thanks for that, Croppie!!!

LOL :smile:

 

[Nostrum]

Just to add, OFTEC are not the only body available for oil. Unlike gas safe, and a bit like electrical, there are a few recognised bodies who can allow you to work and register oil boilers and intallations. APHC, NICEIC, NAPIT etc.

Not that this has any relevance to the OP's questions, but I just thought it might be good for people to see that just because your not OFTEC, doesn't mean you can't work on oil install's. Legally.

 

[SimonG]

Customers responsibility to check the blokes credentials before he walks through the door no matter what competent person scheme he's registered with, or not by the sound of it in this instance.

But in three and a half years I've been asked only once to show my card. Sad really. Joe public really need to be more clued up imho.

 

[lame plumber]

trading standards may not agree with the above statements as if you advertize that your oftec and then sent a non oftec engineer your misrepresenting your firm and additionally not complying with oftecs regs either. However unless you say what the issues are, it seems your more miffed with coughing up for a non registered techie than suffering boiler issues.

 

[kimbo]

As I unerdtand it you can only fit a oil boiler if you are oftec regd or apply to building control. the commissioning engineer has to be oftec registered. The boss is signing it off . By doing this he is saving money getting his blokes trained and also registeringbthem. This practice happens too often and should be stopped. You are right to be concerned.

 

[sraheens]

Best thing i would do is contact Oftec see what they say and go from there mate

 

[confused]

Best thing i would do is contact Oftec see what they say and go from there mate

i will be contacting Oftc tomorrow. Thanks for your replies up to now.

The problems are many.

The system has never worked correctly from day one. The boiler manufacturer sent an engineer to look at the boiler to see if that was the problem.

He told me besides the things I was already concerned about, that the boiler was slightly small for the house, the pipework from the boiler was small then went to a bigger pipe, the red tank above the hot water tank, (forget its name) was too small for the system.

The imersion will not heat water above 44 degrees.
I feel that I checked and looked for the Oftec logo. As a lay person I did not expec the system to be fitted by a non oftec registered person. It seams the boss will just pop in and sign it all off. The job has cost 12k not good enough for the boss the check his engineers work for 5 mins 3 times in 3 1/2 weeks.

any comments

 

[SimonG]

Don't be expecting too much from OFTEC. Sounds like you have more issues than just the oil side.

 

[confused]

trading standards may not agree with the above statements as if you advertize that your oftec and then sent a non oftec engineer your misrepresenting your firm and additionally not complying with oftecs regs either. However unless you say what the issues are, it seems your more miffed with coughing up for a non registered techie than suffering boiler issues.

It has nothing to do with "coughing" up the money. it has been in my current account earning zero interest since they started the job.

Also should they not sign the work off and give you all the relevant documents ie the CD10 and 11? before they start demanding money with avengence?

 

[Killy Bing]

Oftec will only be concerned about how the boiler, oil Line and tank are installed and if they meet regs.

as for the sizing issues that is a mistake on their part imho

post some photos of the area you are concerend about and we will have a better idea.

What boiler make is it aswell?
I know a certain oil boiler make are notorious for blaming anything wrong on the installer immediately

 

[dontknowitall]

You've a right to feel peeved, Confused. I suspect that if in your shoes we would be too.

The first course is a phone call to the installer. If this doesn't work then a formal letter to the installer, detailing all the grievances. Then give them time to respond. This bit is important, as well as good manners.

If you go to oftec they'll wash their hands of this one - too difficult. If you try a plumbing body (e.g. IPHE) you'll find they're not interested.

If still no luck, I'd go to the CAB as a start and take things from there.

It is really annoying for all the decent plumbers and heating engineers as it tars us all with the same brush.

 

[confused]

You've a right to feel peeved, Confused. I suspect that if in your shoes we would be too.

The first course is a phone call to the installer. If this doesn't work then a formal letter to the installer, detailing all the grievances. Then give them time to respond. This bit is important, as well as good manners.

If you go to oftec they'll wash their hands of this one - too difficult. If you try a plumbing body (e.g. IPHE) you'll find they're not interested.

If still no luck, I'd go to the CAB as a start and take things from there.

It is really annoying for all the decent plumbers and heating engineers as it tars us all with the same brush.

Thanks dont know it all.


has anyone got a copy of oftecs codes of practice, or a link to one
Thanks

 

[lame plumber]

OFTEC - complaints process

 

[confused]

OFTEC - complaints process

Thanks

Since the technitian was not oftec registered but the company was, and it has not been signed off. Would oftec still be interested?

 

[Killy Bing]

This is the thing, oftec have no where near the authority gas safe as all of oftec is advisory till you endanger someones life :/

You can work on oil without oftec and as such they cant point the finger and say you broke the law.

If they didn't specify in writing that the work would be carried out by an oftec registered engineer then you could be hitting a brick wall.


my company doesn't sign off boilers till payment is received and that seems like a common practice.

 

[confused]

This is the thing, oftec have no where near the authority gas safe as all of oftec is advisory till you endanger someones life :/

You can work on oil without oftec and as such they cant point the finger and say you broke the law.

If they didn't specify in writing that the work would be carried out by an oftec registered engineer then you could be hitting a brick wall.


my company doesn't sign off boilers till payment is received and that seems like a common practice.

Can you tell me if the old system should be power flushed before the new boiler is fitted, and would this involve the old boiler being switched on. Also would then a second powerfull be done when the new boiler is fitted.

 

[SimonG]

Powerflush is not a requirement of a new installation. Each boiler manufacturer will specify in the MI's what is required to maintain the manufacturers warranty. Also depends what was on the estimate.

Wouldn't mind hearing the full story on this one and not just little bits. Even better to hear both sides of a story.

 

[confused]

Powerflush is not a requirement of a new installation. Each boiler manufacturer will specify in the MI's what is required to maintain the manufacturers warranty. Also depends what was on the estimate.

Wouldn't mind hearing the full story on this one and not just little bits. Even better to hear both sides of a story.

so it was not a new system. It was a new boiler on current system.

 

[SimonG]

Didn't say it was a new system, said it was a new installation, boiler installation. Starting to see why you had issues.

Good Luck.

 

[dontknowitall]

Confused. Sorry if this comes over a little strongly but Simon is trying to help.

 

[confused]

Confused. Sorry if this comes over a little strongly but Simon is trying to help.

yes it did come over strongly. I am not an "awkward customer" I am trying to find out facts. I do not want to re write whole story. Could take years.

I believe the system should have been power flushed before the new boiler was connected, this doesnt appear to be done and therefore amonst other major problems will invalidate the warranty.

 

[Killy Bing]

Without the full story we can't give you any further advice as we simpy do not know enough to give anything solid, please tell us, as these bits and bobs mean nothing to us.

Photos, boiler make, sizings, did they do heat calcs, what did they specify in their quote, did they replace the radiators?

A new boiler wont make a house hotter, a boilers output is limited by the radiators it is fitted too.

without this sort of information then you can't quote us on anything given.
and also I'm personally unwilling to help further without it.

 

[lame plumber]

you need to state your case, full facts to get a sensible answer, down to you now

 

[Nostrum]

£12k?

just to clarify, as already stated: there is no requirement to power flush a new or existing system by any manufacturer that I am aware of. It should be flushed ie system filled, allowed to run up to temp with a cleanser in the system, then drained via a hose pipe. After this filled up and an inhibitor dosed to prevent corrosion.
powerflushing is specified depending on water quality, but this should be in the quote and not assumed to be taking place unless specified.

i would raise this with OFTEC and go from there.the firm haven't really done much wrong from a legal or regulation point of view, providing the boiler was correctly commissioned and the work complys with building regulations. Not sure how OFTEC handle complaints so would be interested to hear their response.

hope you had a lot of work done for that money...

 

[SimonG]

yes it did come over strongly. I am not an "awkward customer" I am trying to find out facts. I do not want to re write whole story. Could take years.

I believe the system should have been power flushed before the new boiler was connected, this doesnt appear to be done and therefore amonst other major problems will invalidate the warranty.

It was meant to come over strongly.

I really struggle with 'I want help, but I'm not going to tell you the full story'. Any help given on snippets of information won't be of the slightest help. It seems as you are editing the 'story' to suit your purposes and use it as ammunition against the contractor.

I'll help everybody I can but won't be taken for a mug.

Good luck.

 

[Dannypipe]

One thing I want to add, and it was only mentioned by the OP as a brief point. The fact that the pipes step one size after the boiler output is not a bad thing at all, and often happens. As heating engineers we have a rough idea of how many KW's a given pipe size will supply (however the figure varies on water velocity and temperature).

So sometimes it is necessary to step up a size after the boiler. Sometimes we step up several sizes to a 'header'. So do not take this as a bad point until it has been looked at by another heating engineer. Remember the heat exchanger is often a restricted flow size to the rest of the system anyway, and all that will happen is the water velocity will increase.