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Discuss Newb desparate for help with soldering copper in the Plumbing Jobs | The Job-board area at PlumbersForums.net

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juntjoo

So I'm repairing this pipe that goes to the city water, a 3/4 inch pipe as I'm here in the US(just grabbed the 1st plumbing forum I could find)
5dl26dlcad3h.jpg
, which requires replacing from that broken ball valve down to the end of this leaky copper pipe where it meets PVC about a foot, or... Idk, under a meter down(?), and I decided to go the cheaper classic soldering route: figured paying extra is for compression and telescopic parts is for lazy rich guys. Well it seems the technology is flat out a complete replacement for outdated inefficient unreliable soldering method, unless I'm doing something totally wrong that I can't figure out hopefully someone can help. Here is the best I've been able to do:
4h0osxwve9u9.jpg



And this the worst as I have to solder upwards against gravity:
3hwjdlnsvfy5.jpg
Otherwise all joints connected, PVC should be good, but I have 5 total seams that look like this 2 with leaks.

I'm sanding down the ends of the pipes, coating them with flux, but working outside in the slightly windy and cold weather.

My 1st impression is that my newbie work is sloppy but also that this method doesn't work. What happens under earthquakes , in earthquake regions, to these weak soldered connections. I mean, I don't see how to make them secure. Earlier when twisting on a pvc elbow at the bottom, the soldered connection broke. I'm chasing micro hole after another dropping molten solder everywhere. Something doesn't seem right. And no one so far, not even the home improvement store pro around the corner is familiar with this apparent phenomenon where solder is attracted to earths gravity so when soldering upwards, especially, not only, it balls up and rolls off of the work area, hence my solder slop seen above.

Need some help here. Got dirty dishes in the sink and poop in the lav. I said that for you UK guys. Hope I said it right.
 
quite simply,
your sodder torch is innadequate!

your not getting the fitting hot enough to flow, if you were it would go up int the filling and leave a neat ring.

if your using butane gas outside-forget it you need 2000degree propane torch or map gas with 3mm dia solder.

nice pics tho
 
Thanks, I hope you're right. In Using one of these: http://www.restockit.com/bernzomat...2EVLvQa-ud7Q4JDbk_g-kshlGY9vQbu65xoCl_Xw_wcB

guys with the yellow "map" gas. I'm in fl so it's not that cold ... but you say it should be hot enough to soak up in there uh? That makes sense... I like that answer. Will go for it till something else comes up. I'll tell you this tho, the tip on this torch isn't so sharp I notice, but I don't know if that means anything. Are there attachments or somethin to sharpen the flame if that might help?
 
that looks the business, its yellow and here its normally map gas.

couple of years ago i would have come over and done it for you for a beer ;)

torch the brass not the pipe, the tip will be fine as the flame will be conical if set right!.
also torch from the back then the front then solder
 
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At first there always is water as I'm going back and forth testing for leaks, flushing toilet etc, but I've been heating the sh*! out of it with this torch it evaporates, at least that is what I say when I'm doing it outdoors. The work I did indoors was easier but still I didn't get that so-hot-it-sucks-right-in hot so I'll aim for hotter next time. I'll stick to this. Someone elsewhere called it an art. That gives me a little patience. I feel less a dumbass and more a practicing arteest
 
Also read to go sloppy with the flux. And keep it clean. I'll bring a friggin checklist. Thanks, will work on it when sun comes up...
 
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you cant solder if there is water in the pipe boiling to the fitting, you can heat the pipe below to boil it out before making the fitting breifly enough to solder it as it evaporates the water rising.
 
From time spent & materials you have purchased it would have been more cost effective to use compression fittings.
 
p.s if thats your solder in the background of the second picture it looks like electrical solder! too thin and designed for soldering irons not blowtorches. check your using the right stuff
 
If you are using resin cored electrical solder then you will never get a good joint with copper. You need an acid flux and a lead based solder that it good for drinking water. I will find a link for how to do this correctly. Secondly if there is ANY WATER AT ALL in the pipe and the pipe is sealed it will turn to steam and you will blow the solder out of the joint before it sets
 
From time spent & materials you have purchased it would have been more cost effective to use compression fittings.
I agree, and seriously now am considering it but the whole purpose of this was to learn and I'll be very disheartened to have to end up quitting and am afraid of the message I'll be sending myself 'youre too inept to solder, even tho billions of people could do this'. I'd say at least a billion people of this earth could solder better than I have.
 
I'm in relatively warm climate. It's slightly windy. I'll check with benzomatic to see what this torch is suitable for. It's the mapp gas but I was sitting there holding the flame to every single part around the seam today so apparently something is missing
 
If I take it all apart, as I have now, should I absolutely get new pieces? Can I just heat em up and clean em off real well?
 
Hold the flame on one part. Apply solder to the opposite side of the pipe.
 
If I take it all apart, as I have now, should I absolutely get new pieces? Can I just heat em up and clean em off real well?
Sometimes if the fittings have been overheated it can hinder the solder from running.
 
Whoe, whoe, it's not hot enough, it's too hot, ... At the store now, buying new couplings but what about the remaining pipes? Well, just one from above and the new pipe pieces I've been heating and heating through trial and error. Should I be alright? I'm taking my chances. I'll be dead by the time I get everything with everything figured out. I learn a lot of time/$ costly lessons. Seems to be my path. I WILL NOT resort to compression cheating methods lol. I will do this. Solder ain't cheap tho. Like little pennies dripping off my work. More like nickels. Thanks for replies
 
The problem is that I cannot wipe off the excess solder without it balling up and rolling off and not soaking up in the space. I cleaned up the surfaces good, applied the flux, which sizzles, turns brownish, apply solder, it balls up, and sets in minimally. See the brown stain from the flux? I feel somehow it's not helping. Why isn't my solder sticking? Does it only work the first go around? Do I need to replace all parts after first failed effort? My torch is hot enough and it's dry and warm enough. ...
8l5llklm93p.jpg


This one I had better luck with but still the same issue. Both of these were leaking before.
4qvbkgw7csz9.jpg


And I have to wipe off to make it clean no? How do I do that without the solder rolling off?
 
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Upload pic of soldered joints and we can tell u where u gone wrong.
 
If solder rolling off its too hot. Cool with some flux and then coat solder wire with flux and run into joint. It's not taking.
 
This one here came out good. Spread into the space on it's own.
327g71izg5xx.jpg
no slop, no need to wipe. I usually wipe. ;)

But this one, right after applying flux then heating it, look how nasty it gets. Haven't attempted to apply solder on top of that. Doesn't look like it'd stick no?
67zy4yg3z5ph.jpg
 
If you are using resin cored electrical solder then you will never get a good joint with copper. You need an acid flux and a lead based solder that it good for drinking water. I will find a link for how to do this correctly. Secondly if there is ANY WATER AT ALL in the pipe and the pipe is sealed it will turn to steam and you will blow the solder out of the joint before it sets
Solder for drinking water is predominantly tin and deffinately no lead.
 
I thought you had to legally be qualified in the US to plumb, holding qualifications?
 
Almost done. No leaks...

2bs8u4vavuvp.jpg
except for...
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That meddling little pvc elbow. I read not to tighten too much or use too much Teflon tape. So I don't know, but apparently I got the soldering down. Not sure how, just kept working on it. It is a bit of an art/skill. I'm guessing tho I made a schoolboy error letting that pvc leak happen after soldering the last connection at top. Not sure if there are ways to test for leaks beforehand that you guys normally perform but the pvc fix should be easier than most of this job. Hand tighten that right? Just Teflon tape?
 
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