E
ecowarm
I think there is more money to be made offering training courses than actually being MCS certified
Discuss MCS Accreditation in the Plumbing Jobs | The Job-board area at PlumbersForums.net
Hi Guys,
The MCS Inspection itself is split between Installations, Competency and Paperwork. The installation needs to be up to the MCS Standards, and the installer needs to be able to prove they are competent to install the equipment. With regards to the paperwork, the paperwork brings the installer into line in terms of functioning to MCS Standards and maintaining a minimum level of quality in the processes they work to. This not only protects the consumer and the government (who's funding they are distributing) but also protects the installer and allows the installer to grow to new levels as they now have the basis to grow into a more structured and successful organisation (if they aren't already). The important aspect for the paperwork is protection, the paperwork has to be followed to pass MCS any deviation wont pass, and by sticking to the paperwork involved and meeting the MCS Regulations it is near impossible to rip of "Mrs Smith" and for "Mrs Smith" to come back at the Installer.
The Quality Systems involved in the MCS Scheme are 99% of the time a structure which takes an installer to the next level and many of the installers we speak to realise how useful the systems are once they have passed.
When the MCS Inspector initially inspects you they would expect you to be competent as an Installer going off your qualifications and Installations. Once your yearly audit comes around this will be far more installation based as they will expect to see a number of installations and often send a technical inspector to perform this audit.
Any more questions feel free.
I think there is more money to be made offering training courses than actually being MCS certified
(MCS QMS £495
OFTEC Assessment Fee £550 (assuming OFTEC does this scheme too and assuming that's the cost)
Solar Thermal course £300
Photovoltaic course £300
REAL sub £220
TOTAL £1,865
plus vat £373
Setup TOTAL £2,238
On-going/annual costs:
REAL £220
MSC audit £400
OFTEC £150 ??? I can't see this being free!
So, minimum of £924 including vat per year.)
When I did my MCS assesment the assesor told me that I would not pass the first time I have another thread on here somwhere Mcs, so I wonder how many people have gone through MCS without having to do the assesment twice. I personally didnt bother but as stated before i am still doing sign offs and inspections in fact I am really busy over the next couple of days doing them.
I can't quite put my finger on this but it seems MCS Accreditation is much MORE to do with administration, book-keeping, database design, paperwork and so on and much LESS to do with knowledge and improved installation and diagnosis of renewable energy systems.
I wonder, with no response to my last missive about the figures, whether that last post was accurate after all?
Thank you, Ecowarm. I don't do gas but am an OFTEC technician so I guessed at their prices instead!
[Edit]
Just seen your "Oftec don't do mcs" post!!!
That's funny - especially when they created the first Oil and Renewables show last October and want to do another one this spring!!
MCS where do I start!!!!!!!
Just had a re-read of the whole thread.
The NEF one day course is 299+vat for the "early bird" one day course. Plus a days wages, possible night in a travellodge and diesel. Then a lot of work on evenings and weekends (in other words time when not earning) to finalise QMS and prep for an audit.
Your way is £1100 - 1200 as stated to Dontknowitall in an earlier post. You say Seminar is not a requirement. As your product is bespoke to the individual business how many hours are required from the individual business for yourselves to be able to create the bespoke package?
Renewables are the way to go, especially where I am, very limited gas, solid fuel and oil are the predominant fuels. Already I have had one customer drop the oil boiler for an electric combi (not my choice). If you are correct in what you have said earlier with regard to the material costs plummetting all well and good.
But, I am a sole trader in what appears to be a very similiar position to many who contribute on here and as such the costs involved in gaining MCS accreditation play a major role in when / if you would decide to proceed. I am lucky (Business is very good at the minute and the foreseable future)to be in the position where I can invest some time and money into achieving this, hopefully by the end of the year.
However I would find it of greater benefit to myself to go down the route of the NEF course. Yes it's cheaper and the risks of a failed assessment are greater but the amount of time I will have to put into this on my own, will mean I will know the process inside out, something that I would hope would be apparent to an assessor. I would find this of greater benefit than having it handed to me on a plate and having to refer questions and queries back to yourselves.
Hope this clears up where I have been coming from.
hi everyone, just signed up here trying to get some info, heres where i am, im a time served plumber/gas heating engineer for the last 14 years, am 30 years old, looked into the renewables last year and as got asked to do a solar thermal job, then the mcs bit came up, so went on a heat pump 3 day course and a 3 day solar course, total cost £700, then joined up with napit for heat pump and solar cost around £900 not heard from them in 9 months and their attitude is terrible but im still with them till june i think yet im nowhere nearer, then i fitted 2 solar jobs and very happy with outcome, customers are chuffed, then found easymcs, who i have payed roughly £700 for the qms, which i admit i could never provide, time spent getting to where i think im ready fiiling out that qms roughly 50 hours. Might seem a lot but im trying to get it all in my head. Got asked by builder friend doing his own house about ashp, so got nu heat to supply, finished it 2 weeks back and im more confused now than ever, commissioning engineer comes out and says right nu heat will sign it off for customer, hold on i say i need this for my assessment as it had solar too, he says youll never pass, was happy with install but said paperwork wise dont go there, basically said unless i did an umbrella for heat pumps forget it (only thing is depending who you go with you have to fit their stuff), so here i am bolloxed as customer needs it signing so let him do it, he told me if i use this as assessment i cant use any of the drawings, sap calcs etc etc as they are nu heats and not mine. so called nu heat today re umbrella scheme as to be fair id probably use them just for the heat pumps and they are offering installers free heat pump mcs with a purchace, yet to hear back so cant comment. Thing is there is no way i have the software to provide what nu heat did and if this is what they want i might as well give up, id like to be able to fit what heat pump I like but if they are going to be that bad on assessment why bother. So im going to call easymcs and see what they say as im now in a position where i have no heat pump to show and napit said they want a ground and air source example. Thing is we are not getting the jobs unless your mcs so vicious circle me thinks, i honestly doubt id fit more than 2 a year if im lucky. Option now is unless easy mcs tell me otherwise, right off napits £900 last year and go heat pumps through nu heat and do my own solar. Oh plus you need to buy heat pump book tr30 at £30ish.
Ill have a chat with nu heat and easymcs tommorrow as im of the opinion im now screwed without having any heat pumps to install.
The paperwork involved with all this is not going to improve me much at all, its all about paying money out for systems that are so over the top its untrue, I have all my qualifications and all I want is to go and fit a decent job for a customer yet we seem entangled in this paoer trail mess. I wish i could put all the file onm here and show how much bull **** is in it because im really at the point where i dont give a toss for renewables any more.
Kev Fisk
K FISK PLUMBING AND HEATING LTD
Hi Guys,
Just thought I would start this thread if anyone want's any advice or has any questions on the MCS Accreditation process. We are specialists in MCS Accreditation Support on Quality Management Systems so if anyone want's to run through the Quality side of MCS on Heat Pumps, Solar Thermal, Biomass and CHP on the plumbing side of MCS or even the electrical based technologies such as Solar PV, Wind Turbines or Hydro Turbines. We work with all the MCS Certification bodies such as NICEIC, NAPIT, ELECSA, CORGI & BRE.
Cheers
Easy MCS Ltd
The Award Winning and Market Leading MCS Accreditation Specialists Easy MCS Ltd
Cost & Pain Free MCS Installer Accreditation & Certification
MCS Directory
I want a bit of the MCS pie, like we all do, and have done renewable courses, but as everyone else has said, its a long, miserable and expensive path to get accredited.
My mate is going for it, so I'll see how he gets on.
I wonder how big the market really is? The country is skint...can the government really afford to pay for everyone to have free energy?
Sounds about right. Oh well. I won't pursue accreditation...as said I'll see how my mate gets on. He's an average guy, so if it starts making him money, I'll jump on the gravy train!
Hi
I just had a thought obviously you are a market expert because every trade magazine I look in I see your advert you are also sponsoring this forum, So are you actualy MCS accredited in any technology also do you have any one that does inspections on any of the MCS technologies
Having just done a quick search on the MCS website I can not see your company on there.
Regards
Mike
hi everyone, just signed up here trying to get some info, heres where i am, im a time served plumber/gas heating engineer for the last 14 years, am 30 years old, looked into the renewables last year and as got asked to do a solar thermal job, then the mcs bit came up, so went on a heat pump 3 day course and a 3 day solar course, total cost £700, then joined up with napit for heat pump and solar cost around £900 not heard from them in 9 months and their attitude is terrible but im still with them till june i think yet im nowhere nearer, then i fitted 2 solar jobs and very happy with outcome, customers are chuffed, then found easymcs, who i have payed roughly £700 for the qms, which i admit i could never provide, time spent getting to where i think im ready fiiling out that qms roughly 50 hours. Might seem a lot but im trying to get it all in my head. Got asked by builder friend doing his own house about ashp, so got nu heat to supply, finished it 2 weeks back and im more confused now than ever, commissioning engineer comes out and says right nu heat will sign it off for customer, hold on i say i need this for my assessment as it had solar too, he says youll never pass, was happy with install but said paperwork wise dont go there, basically said unless i did an umbrella for heat pumps forget it (only thing is depending who you go with you have to fit their stuff), so here i am bolloxed as customer needs it signing so let him do it, he told me if i use this as assessment i cant use any of the drawings, sap calcs etc etc as they are nu heats and not mine. so called nu heat today re umbrella scheme as to be fair id probably use them just for the heat pumps and they are offering installers free heat pump mcs with a purchace, yet to hear back so cant comment. Thing is there is no way i have the software to provide what nu heat did and if this is what they want i might as well give up, id like to be able to fit what heat pump I like but if they are going to be that bad on assessment why bother. So im going to call easymcs and see what they say as im now in a position where i have no heat pump to show and napit said they want a ground and air source example. Thing is we are not getting the jobs unless your mcs so vicious circle me thinks, i honestly doubt id fit more than 2 a year if im lucky. Option now is unless easy mcs tell me otherwise, right off napits £900 last year and go heat pumps through nu heat and do my own solar. Oh plus you need to buy heat pump book tr30 at £30ish.
Ill have a chat with nu heat and easymcs tommorrow as im of the opinion im now screwed without having any heat pumps to install.
The paperwork involved with all this is not going to improve me much at all, its all about paying money out for systems that are so over the top its untrue, I have all my qualifications and all I want is to go and fit a decent job for a customer yet we seem entangled in this paoer trail mess. I wish i could put all the file onm here and show how much bull **** is in it because im really at the point where i dont give a toss for renewables any more.
Kev Fisk
K FISK PLUMBING AND HEATING LTD
Reply to MCS Accreditation in the Plumbing Jobs | The Job-board area at PlumbersForums.net
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