Level 3 Diploma 6035 Some questions about the course

[teabreak]

I have read this complete post with interest.
Whilst I am a keen advocate of FE. I can tell by Chris's comments, that he comes from an experienced Plumbing background, as do I.
I fully support and endorse C&G 6035 Level II. However, it is impossible to become a Level III Plumber without real experience. When I say experience I mean a minimum of five years.

I am afraid that lack quality teaching staff, also impacts on the learners. Many 'Tutors' are employed with Level II Tech Certs, fresh from their own course. I feel passionately, about my profession as a Plumber & Heating Engineer. It remains my goal to pass on my knowledge (accumulated over 35+years in the industry) to anyone willing and wanting to learn. It is a mistake (in my opinion) to offer a Level III course to either full or part time learners, without any experience.

As a nation we have gradually 'dumbed' down vocational qualifications, to suit various political and financial agendas. Now with the advent of advanced technologies entering into our industry with increasing frequency. Will we surely find ourselves facing another skills shortage.

Bring back Lead into the plumbing syllabus, then students will need to master a real craft, to be proud of and burnt and scared hands​ to prove it.

 

[Jules]

I have read this complete post with interest.
Whilst I am a keen advocate of FE. I can tell by Chris's comments, that he comes from an experienced Plumbing background, as do I.
I fully support and endorse C&G 6035 Level II. However, it is impossible to become a Level III Plumber without real experience. When I say experience I mean a minimum of five years.

I am afraid that lack quality teaching staff, also impacts on the learners. Many 'Tutors' are employed with Level II Tech Certs, fresh from their own course. I feel passionately, about my profession as a Plumber & Heating Engineer. It remains my goal to pass on my knowledge (accumulated over 35+years in the industry) to anyone willing and wanting to learn. It is a mistake (in my opinion) to offer a Level III course to either full or part time learners, without any experience.

As a nation we have gradually 'dumbed' down vocational qualifications, to suit various political and financial agendas. Now with the advent of advanced technologies entering into our industry with increasing frequency. Will we surely find ourselves facing another skills shortage.

Bring back Lead into the plumbing syllabus, then students will need to master a real craft, to be proud of and burnt and scared hands​ to prove it.

I agree with everything here apart from the LEAD!
Having spent many years in the lead-acid battery industry, I have witnessed 1st-hand some of the health consequences of the stuff, and I say Good Riddance!

 

[teabreak]

The lead comment was tounge-in-cheek. However, it is/was what plumbings all about.

Thanks Jules, you certainly demonstrate a high level of commitment to your new chosen career. I wish you well and trust you succeed in the interesting and diverse world of Plumbing.

Best Wishes
Teabreak

 

[chris watkins]

I have read this complete post with interest.
Whilst I am a keen advocate of FE. I can tell by Chris's comments, that he comes from an experienced Plumbing background, as do I.
I fully support and endorse C&G 6035 Level II. However, it is impossible to become a Level III Plumber without real experience. When I say experience I mean a minimum of five years.

I am afraid that lack quality teaching staff, also impacts on the learners. Many 'Tutors' are employed with Level II Tech Certs, fresh from their own course. I feel passionately, about my profession as a Plumber & Heating Engineer. It remains my goal to pass on my knowledge (accumulated over 35+years in the industry) to anyone willing and wanting to learn. It is a mistake (in my opinion) to offer a Level III course to either full or part time learners, without any experience.

As a nation we have gradually 'dumbed' down vocational qualifications, to suit various political and financial agendas. Now with the advent of advanced technologies entering into our industry with increasing frequency. Will we surely find ourselves facing another skills shortage.

Bring back Lead into the plumbing syllabus, then students will need to master a real craft, to be proud of and burnt and scared hands​ to prove it.

Thank you teabreak for your eloquent posting, I could not agree more!

Your reasons for wanting to teach sound the same as mine 10 years ago. Although I would say I still had the passion to pass it on, you can't help but get beaten down by the poor wages, the use of teachers with little or no site experience & so much paper work along with senseless meetings. I am afraid the days of the old FE technical colleges that we attended are long gone.

My local one was staffed by the made up store man, Two H&V fitters one who had been on site for only a couple of years & the other who had done the course & then was the store man before being asked to teach it. Good lads but what a joke!

We also had management going to Australasia & NewZealand to recruit did not seem to worry them that the plumbing systems are not the same, still bet they didn't go anywhere near the beach.
Some people may wonder why I bang-on about the non NVQ qualifications being all about the money (income for the colleges) well perhaps you see why!

To enforce my point, I here that in the next funding review there will be no more public money of any Level 2 plumbing courses, as this is deemed to be too lower a skill set for modern plumbing & heating engineer. Only a course that goes through to Level 3 will have any funding.
Lets hope that this knowledge can be passed onto joe public if you want a bathroom fitted then employ a bathroom domestic installer, anything else & you had better get a Level 3 NVQ Plumbing & heating engineer.

I am about ready to accept two level or grades in the trade, the sparks now have it !!!
Though it breaks my hart.

 

[Kay101]

I have read this complete post with interest.
Whilst I am a keen advocate of FE. I can tell by Chris's comments, that he comes from an experienced Plumbing background, as do I.
I fully support and endorse C&G 6035 Level II. However, it is impossible to become a Level III Plumber without real experience. When I say experience I mean a minimum of five years.
I am afraid that lack quality teaching staff, also impacts on the learners. Many 'Tutors' are employed with Level II Tech Certs, fresh from their own course. I feel passionately, about my profession as a Plumber & Heating Engineer. It remains my goal to pass on my knowledge (accumulated over 35+years in the industry) to anyone willing and wanting to learn. It is a mistake (in my opinion) to offer a Level III course to either full or part time learners, without any experience.
As a nation we have gradually 'dumbed' down vocational qualifications, to suit various political and financial agendas. Now with the advent of advanced technologies entering into our industry with increasing frequency. Will we surely find ourselves facing another skills shortage.

Bring back Lead into the plumbing syllabus, then students will need to master a real craft, to be proud of and burnt and scared hands​ to prove it.

Great post

I dont feel the need for lead to be included, its done mainly by roofers now and the trade has evolved, we need to training to evolve with it.
Teachers CANNOT assess candidates work with only a tech cert
The 6035 level 3 does not mean the candidate is a L3 plumber, they must sign a disclaimer, if full time courses are a mistake what does it matter the level? They are either right or wrong. Without eh NVQ they cannot be classed as qualified anyway, L2 or 3
I dont support the qualifications have been 'dumbed down', Ive seen the work the students do at college, i think people just look back at their own with pride and like to say "it was harder in my day". I agree not all tutors have the same pride but think this is the exception not the rule so we shouldnt tie everyone with the same brush. Go into the colleges and see what they do, look at their books, take a real interest in what they deliver and you may be surprised. The dumbing down IMO isnt to do with the qual but with the approach to work and the work ethic which isnt unique to plumbing or education

 

[Kay101]

Thank you teabreak for your eloquent posting, I could not agree more!
Your reasons for wanting to teach sound the same as mine 10 years ago. Although I would say I still had the passion to pass it on, you can't help but get beaten down by the poor wages, the use of teachers with little or no site experience & so much paper work along with senseless meetings. I am afraid the days of the old FE technical colleges that we attended are long gone. Too much paperwork and meetings is a sign of the times with FE/HE and Schools and probably other sectors, I hear this complaint all the time from teachers in schools and on the TV, is it Ofsted?

My local one was staffed by the made up store man, Two H&V fitters one who had been on site for only a couple of years & the other who had done the course & then was the store man before being asked to teach it. Good lads but what a joke!​This isnt good at all, any tutor should be experienced and trained to pass on their skills, its very disappointing that Colleges feel this appropriate and should be stopped

We also had management going to Australasia & NewZealand to recruit did not seem to worry them that the plumbing systems are not the same, still bet they didn't go anywhere near the beach.
Some people may wonder why I bang-on about the non NVQ qualifications being all about the money (income for the colleges) well perhaps you see why! ​Well they have to make money, or they wouldnt exist, but not at the expense of unqualified staff

To enforce my point, I here that in the next funding review there will be no more public money of any Level 2 plumbing courses, as this is deemed to be too lower a skill set for modern plumbing & heating engineer. Only a course that goes through to Level 3 will have any funding.
Lets hope that this knowledge can be passed onto joe public if you want a bathroom fitted then employ a bathroom domestic installer, anything else & you had better get a Level 3 NVQ Plumbing & heating engineer. I hadnt heard that funding for L2 was going? Or that the qual at L2 was going? What about all the bathroom installers? Will they work without quals? Will this open the door for more tech cert installers?L3 is a very difficult course, what about all the handy practical people, will they not qualify?

I am about ready to accept two level or grades in the trade, the sparks now have it!!! Electrical is a different trade, L2 has never been recognised in elec. Are we saying people who have a L2 and worked in the industry very well for years are now not qualified? Would this open the door to many other providers to offer their own L2 courses as colleges wont get paid for it?
Though it breaks my hart.

replies in bold - for once i agree with a lot of your comments

 

[teabreak]

Hi Kay,
I am guessing you work within the FE sector. I can speak with a degree of expertise on this subject too, as a part time qualified Plumbing Lecturer. Believe me I have seen it all, it is not through 'rose tinted glasses' when I compare past and present.
As with most aspects of modern Britain, it's all about money, quantity over quality. If I sound cynical it's because I have been made so.
Having visited Germany and seeing their Plumbing Training, it is possible to achieve a system that befits all: students, employers and the general public.
In the meantime, we continue to rely on poorly paid and overworked teaching staff, with a few hard working committed students, to make it all worth while.
Surprisingly, I continue to hope things will improve. Otherwise I would quit teaching:smiley2: