Lead welding

[david williams]

you can tell a plumber by size of tool bag ,all over trades just their own tools we have ours and everyone elses tools in our bag

 

[Plouasne]

Hi! Plouasne,

Had a look at the site and it seems good.

The UK one is "The Lead Sheet Association" and the "copperboard" for copper roofing. They have both got interesting information on.

You know the new guys seem rather constricted in the work they can take on, it must be hard for them to make a living only doing bits and pieces.

I don't think anybody quite knows the extent of a Plumbers work. I've been required when installing urinal slabs, to work in toilets without tiles and no set levels, requiring me to set the levels which would eventually correspond with the tile patterns.

I don't suppose it occurs to most people that a Plumber has to know about tiling.

Moving on from there, what about roof constructions? How about having to work out the slate or tile cuts and then cut and fit them, when repairing or replacing lead or other valleys?

The whole area of Plumbing covers all kinds, in point you have virtually got to know how to construct a building from top to bottom. Lead D.P.C are not thrown in they have to be placed in according to the brickwork.

How about electronics and electric?

How about floor construction.

Then the art of making good your work.

How about glazing?

I suppose you could fill a book with what a Plumber is supposed to know about things people don't usually think of as Plumbing?

Bernie,
Please do not talk to me about setting out for tiling, before the tiles were in place, I still have nightmares about setting out a Wade floor gully, and Barbican built into the wall wash hand basins, on the Barbican, there all you had was the rough concrete plus a "Datum" (any new boy knows what a datum is ??, no cheating and looking it up in wikipedia), to set out every thing from, there were no cut tiles in the room allowed, joints in the floor tiles follow the wall tiles, finished job looked bl00dy 'oribal just like a 4" square net had been placed over every thing

I used to have the then CDA booklets also the LDA books, still look at them at times via the web this time

Did you click on to this link as well, and the pictures to bring up the detailed drawings, one of the few things both sides of the channel agree on, on how it should be done
Le Plomb Francais Filiale du Groupe Eco-Bat Technologies PLC, 1er producteur mondial de plomb - Pour l'habitat ...

I did do a lead DPC on a couple of jobs for Cornwall C C, plus quite a bit of lead work for flat roofs and flashings, one that comes to mind was an architectural feature ??, what a co ck up, imagine a steel framed building, brick clad with a roof recessed at 45°between the top of the ground floor window and the first floor slab, along one side of the building for about 60 feet in length, all lead covered with "slates" to go around the steel uprights, supposed to be lead burnt, only thing wrong was that the steel had to be painted in intumisscent (sp) paint first, we were allowed to use a double lock welt at the back of the slate with the sole of the slate "burnt" to the lead covering, we must have been doing something right, because when my mate told the architect to get his big feet off the rolls of the roof he was standing on, both he and the C of W apologised
The building was a bit of a farce in other ways as well, somebody did not check the drawings before being issued to site and steel frame maker, because the steel uprights came straight in front of opening windows in some places, in other places it was the sway braces, levels were all out as well, the steel stanchion bases were at finished floor level, instead of being at sub base level

Electrics, I wonder how many check that nice plastic water main they are going to cut in to, is an actual water main and not some bodged sparks electrical conduit

Flooring, I was on a timber frame job once all floor were of the cassette type, made in a factory, and craned into place, could not lift the ply flooring to get the 1" flow and return in from a solid fuel boiler on the ground floor to the cylinder on the first floor, C of W gave written instructions to notch the under side of the joists (I made sure that the instruction was in writing before I did any notching of the joists, [that's called covering your back]), every dammed pipe in a block of 6 houses looked like a sparge pipe after the plasterboard tackers had finnished

Glazing, well I got the sack for this, and black listed, I was told to go and fit a sheet of Georgian wired glass to a roof of a conservatory, by my self, when I asked how big the sheet was they said 8 x 4 I said inches that's OK, No they said feet, that's when I told them that I would put it in with the lump hammer I had in my hand, straight through the middle of it. I got work with another firm about a month later the supervisor turned up on site said to the site agent that he had stacks of work did not know where to turn for plumbers saw me and said you, your finished, I asked anything wrong with my work?, no just don't want you, your a trouble maker

 

[david williams]

sparge pipes try not to confuse people. who could tell you what one was ,youl be talking of spruse-thrower pass-over units next

 

[stevetheplumber]

, I asked anything wrong with my work?, no just don't want you, your a trouble maker[/quote]

why does this not suprise me ?

 

[david williams]

plumbers we are all trouble makers,i think it is the nature of the job

 

[stevetheplumber]

sparge pipes try not to confuse people. who could tell you what one was ,youl be talking of spruse-thrower pass-over units next

ok curiosity has got the better of me google turns up nothing what is a spruse thrower?

plumbers we are all trouble makers,i think it is the nature of the job

about twenty years ago i was on a job in victoria it was state of the art technology everything was computer generated the only part of the build left up was the front and a complete steel frame was erected behind
Each steel was numbered and had pre drilled holes for all services so we locate hole numer 27 and start running pipework through only to meet an electrician comming the other way several hours of site meetings later it was realised that there were two set of drawings in circulation each being the mirrow image of each other so half the steels were laid back to front needlesss to say this was only realised after the concreete had been laid

Same job we had to run temp water supplies to each floor for the sprays to keep dust down during the demolition so again state of the art spec
inch and a quarte plastic water mains trace heating armour flex lagging and neoprene water proofing
two days later were called back as its leaking like a sieve turns out the labourers had turned of the water and drained it as it was near freezing stats kicked in trace heating came one and melted the pipes

 

[Plouasne]

The job described by Steve (above), is a symptom of to-days age
When I was a junior design engineer for Wheeler Crittal Berry, every drawing that was produced for the plumbing, was sent to every other trade concerned, for approval before being issued to site, as a working drawing, the usual list was Architect, Client, Structural Engineers, Fire services (sprinklers), Electrical, Heating
One job, I had to draw @ 1/4" to 1' was for a range of 3 W/C's with the C/I "float " passing under a deep beam, I started to do a standard centre line only drawing but was told to draw it showing the socket, and spigot with the bead etc, when done this way it worked out that the last pan piece on the run needed the bead to be cut of the pan piece, and this was used as a "soldier" in the socket of the first branch on the float, my senior engineer said its as I thought, they said it would not work
Athenium Court Club in Piccadilly London, all soil stacks in cast iron with copper floats, this was the time of change from imperial to metric, all the different bossed pipes in cast iron were drawn, with a notation that they were to be made for metric sized copper, all the stacks were up when it came time to fit the copper floats, none fitted, because Allied Iron founders had ignored the notation on the drawings and sent out bossed pipes for 4" copper
Later on in life, the triangular island between Colliers wood station and Merton bus garage, was being redeveloped, walking home one night there was water flooding from the site where they had been deep pile drilling, fire brigade was there, water was more than 6" deep over the road, which the fire brigade was trying to pump away, I asked a fireman what had happened, he said that he thought that the pileing rig had hit an underground spring, which was flooding the site, I pointed to the "tomb stone" indicator beside us, saying that I thought that it was the ring main that Thames water had built, then pointed to the draw off station on the opposite side of the road, when that was shut off the flooding stopped

 

[ken quinton]

.All hail the Plumbarii Forum. or Hi Plumbers.

Plumbarii was what the romans called there workers with lead.
Hi Just lead. The bit about the romans. Lead was definitely the downfall of the roman
aristocracy. They used to boil down unfermented grape juice (must) To form a sweet
syrup. But only the rich could afford lead lined bronze pots. the lead added to the sweetness
but resulted in lead poisoning (plumbism).
The poisoning aswell as sending them gaga made the men sterile and the women infertile
and birth defects.
The poor just used bronze pots but these gave off copper rust which spoiled the flavour.
Copper rust turned the wine acid ( vinegar).
----------
To the youngsters out there that think we are a bunch of dinosaurs with out of date
knowhow and skills. i think your great.
you can learn in 6 weeks what took use 20 years.
You know all the new technologies and modern materials (PLASTIC)

How many times have i heard the words "this is the future".
If you youngsters want to know what your future is. look at your past and try learning
something from it, not all buildings are brand new.

From a dinosaur Roofer. or dinosaur Plumbarii

 

[justlead1]

Hi Ken this post has gone on far enough. However one thing i did find interesting, was the result of lead in blood tests carried out by my occupational doctor. On the results coming back we discussed the figures, he was amazed at the data, saying "Having carried out these tests on folk living in major cities who do not work with lead. I am amazed yours is lower" Its either they mixed up the samples or we are all in the brown stuff/ Good Luck

 

[ken quinton]

Hi Just lead i agree long enough.

You can lead a horse to water,
but a church roofs got to be lead.

 

[mark tomlinson]

when getting flame right 1st set pressures on both gases the same and look for the perfect cone in flame picture, if outdoors i tend to tweak the flame slightly to compensate for atmospheric conditions if a damp overcast day, thus giving a clean puddle of molten lead as you make the weld. however this does take years of experience to master especialy if welding vertically in position

 

[Bruceiwish]

i have a micro set lead torch but finding it hard to get a low enough flame heat ?, says in the notes with it pressures down to 0.1 to 0.4 bar, well ive never seen a regulator go down that low its working well out the nominal scope of the reg and it pulses the flame.
i used to do it 30 years ago and want to start again but just cant get low temp, can you advise.
Mick

 

[Ermintrude]

What size torch is it double zero?

 

[Bruceiwish]

Is a model O blowpipe, 0.1 to 0.34 bar & Nozzle start from O - 5
theres not a regukator on earth goes down to this pressure so wonder how everyone else achives it. I use oxyaxetalene by the way.

 

[justlead1]

Hi.
0.1 bar is approx. 1.5 Pound per square inch, 0.34 about 5 psi. It very low pressure using Oxy just hold the nozzle over the back of your hand, turn on you will feel the breeze. Mimic that feeling with Acet. Once happy at even pressures, turn off and on with acet, light it and add oxy until you establish a neutral flame.
Good Luck

 

[stani]

Justlead1 are your videos still available to watch? Think I saw them before and was impressed with the work. I had to remove some lead circs recently must have been nearly 100 years old, absolutely perfect wiped joints, it was actually a shame to have to remove them, they were in the way for new copper, as said before it's crying shame that this work isn't still taught.

 

[Bernie2]

Err! Lead circs. Horrible job climbing half up a chimney to thread them through to the cylinder in the bedroom or over fire cupboard, getting covered in soot and spiting it out for hours after. Glad we have moved on. Wiping joints can be fun but not if your in a hurry. And 3/4" 9lb is heavy stuff to haul about let alone try and straighten it from a coil. Bent bolts, shave hooks, branch augers, tampins, mallets, bloc black, pipe clamps, D type bar solder tallow and wiping clothes should remain where they are in the past. But they are still better than plastic.

 

[WHPES]

I have only one important thing to say with lead welding:

CLEANLINESS!!

Any oxide film, muck or grease and you are wasting your time.

oh, and lots of practice........