Lead soil to solvent soil connection.

[JCplumb]

Evening gents,
Me and Kev may have just stumbled upon a nice little job over the next couple of weeks, if we get it we'll be first fixing and following up on 9 flats in a grade 2 listed conversion.
The jobs seem straight forward enough but there is one thing that has us both scratching our heads a little.
An internal soil needs to be connected to a lead soil that comes in through the wall. My guess is the lead soil is about 3 inches in diameter and it needs to be converted to standard solvent soil pipe. The site manager suggested a hepworth, but he's a site manager and not a plumber.
Have any of you guys done this before and what did you use? Or does any random merchant (cough...Ray...cough) know of such a product.
This will all end up being boxed in so need it to work first time and to stay sound at least until it's not our liability any more
I've seen a couple of products after doing a Google search but would rather use something that a fellow board member can vouch for.
Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[smtplumbing]

is the full stack lead or the outlet for the wcs

 

[smtplumbing]

sorry that was a stupid question is it cast outside coming inside in lead

 

[kay-jay]

actually i think its a downpipe not soil lads

 

[kay-jay]

it runs in inaccessible brickwork and enters through the brick at a 135 degree angle in lead and we need to reroute the pipe from here by connecting the 60-70 odd mm pipe to plastic. i was wondering if philmac or similar did a fitting for this

 

[smtplumbing]

done a few lead soil stuff but never downpipes, i am sure you can get a black rubber which fits in the lead but not sure if its as big as you need but you could allways use a flex seal which looks like this

 

[JCplumb]

Yeah, sorry - it's a rainwater run off that comes in to join an internal soil. I was typing in a hurry

 

[basildog]

When you say downpipe are you now saying it is rainwater ?

 

[basildog]

FERNCO
If they do not make one I doubt anyone will ?
Not sure I would want to clamp too tightly onto plastic downpipe though ?
Other answer is a good lead guy to make you a nice converter ?

 

[JCplumb]

sorry that was a stupid question is it cast outside coming inside in lead

I can't be sure what's outside, it may be a lead gutter, the site manager told us a load of lead had been nicked and the recent rain flooded in from a lead gutter on the roof. They had replaced a couple of floors worth of internal lead pipe (that had been nicked) with 110mm plastic soil pipe which now needs to be connected to another lead pipe approx 3'' dia. that comes in through the wall of the 1st floor building.
It's a listed buliding so we can't touch outside even if we wanted to - which we don't.
Not sure if the rainwater goes out or comes in from the incoming lead pipe, but tbh it shouldn't really matter, it's the fitting that is important.
I've done some searches again and really can't find anything that instills me with confidence, anything that tightens from the outside, like the flex seal pictured above would need an insert inside the lead pipe would it not?

 

[kay-jay]

I reckon we can get some plastic downpipe to fit inside the lead. Dress the lead so it fits snug. Use one of those rubber flexi connectors with jubilee clips to clamp tight on to it and wrap in denso for good measure.

 

[Grumpy old Plum]

Time to get your wiping cloths out and wipe new brass thimble to old lead pipes or leadburn on if you have the true plumbing skills

 

[chris watkins]

I reckon we can get some plastic downpipe to fit inside the lead. Dress the lead so it fits snug. Use one of those rubber flexi connectors with jubilee clips to clamp tight on to it and wrap in denso for good measure.

Will the horses be OK left outside for that amount of time while you carry out such a job?? :cowboy:
Reducing 110mm down to 3" lead ? Rubber couplings with jubilee clips ?

I am with the Grump (Welcome to the forum by the way old Plum) find someone old like us too who can wipe or lead burn it !!!

 

[JCplumb]

Time to get your wiping cloths out and wipe new brass thimble to old lead pipes or leadburn on if you have the true plumbing skills

I openly admit to not having the lead welding/forming skills needed for this. I wouldn't have asked the original question if I had.
It's a dying art but luckily there are still a few people about who are very good at it. I flashed a chimney and did a lead slate in college many years ago, since then it's not really something I've had to do.
If I need something like that doing (barring the odd lead loc) I get someone in who can do it, unfortunately the old roofer (not plumber) who I know and was brilliant at this has retired now.
I seem to remember one of the members having youtube videos of himself very skillfully leadworking on here, I was jealous...

 

[kay-jay]

Time to get your wiping cloths out and wipe new brass thimble to old lead pipes or leadburn on if you have the true plumbing skills

Will the horses be OK left outside for that amount of time while you carry out such a job?? :cowboy:
Reducing 110mm down to 3" lead ? Rubber couplings with jubilee clips ?

I am with the Grump (Welcome to the forum by the way old Plum) find someone old like us too who can wipe or lead burn it !!!

Ooooooooooooooooooh look its the read half a thread brigade.

Firstly its rainwater downpipe and not soil.

Secondly lead isnt an option. We have been asked to do away with the lead at point of entry to avoid risk of damage to during the extensive rennovations hence the initial question about proprietary fittings for just such a purpose.


Thirdly the horse will be fine and dandy

 

[smtplumbing]

the flex seal fits over the lead and the pvc goes into the slip

 

[chris watkins]

This is one were we really do need photos of what you have got on site Kay. So as I see it at the moment you have an external lead (3") RWP which can not be touched passing through the wall to the inside at an angle of around 135 deg & you need to connect this to a newly installed 110mm uPVC RWP which has been run down from the roof gutter ??
My first point is, as I said, why 110mm & not 82mm (or 75mm)? 110mm to 3" is a reduction in size & not good practice even if you did not install it.

Glad to know your equine skill are up to scratch.

 

[kay-jay]

This is one were we really do need photos of what you have got on site Kay. So as I see it at the moment you have an external lead (3") RWP which can not be touched passing through the wall to the inside at an angle of around 135 deg & you need to connect this to a newly installed 110mm uPVC RWP which has been run down from the roof gutter ??
My first point is, as I said, why 110mm & not 82mm (or 75mm)? 110mm to 3" is a reduction in size & not good practice even if you did not install it.

Glad to know your equine skill are up to scratch.

Lead rainwater to plastic rainwatet. Forget about soil. It was a typo by joe.

 

[kay-jay]

the flex seal fits over the lead and the pvc goes into the slip

I know how it works but wouldnt fancy using the jubilee clip on the lead without using something as a pipe stiffener

 

[chris watkins]

Lead rainwater to plastic rainwatet. Forget about soil. It was a typo by joe.

I had !! Thats why I asked is it 110mm RWP ?? So what size is this rainwatet pipe then, 68mm ??

 

[JCplumb]

It looked about 110 to me, it was a builder that put it in place to hurriedly give the flooding top gutter water somewhere to go other than down the inside wall.
When I typed my original question my evening meal was going cold at the side of my keyboard so just hammered it out and submitted it without realising the scrutiny police :bobby: might be on the forum
The job is apparantly on hold for the time being anyway so not to worry...
BTW I can do an outside tap in 30 mins :army:

 

[nicro3]

Did a job in a office block in Regents street W1 a few years ago where the lead rwps were buried in walls and leaking in various places and had to run in ensign caste in boxing. Got approval from Westminster council to connect to lead gutters and where it disappeared in the basement in the following way. Made our own inserts from 110 terrain and cut and shut and used heat to make lip on insert( to suit the difference between ensign and lead. Although a bodge really it did the job and as far as I know has had no probems. If this post is not to clear please pm me and I can talk you through it. hope this helps

 

[JCplumb]

Here's a drawing that may/may not explain it better for anyone who has lost the plot. (Providing the forum doesn't shrink it)

 

[chris watkins]

Joe, please find info that may or may not help, depending on what you find then you get back on site. See pages 62 & 63 if not possible to wipe / burn a bit of copper onto the lead you may be able to use one of the post form sockets & ring seals to make a joint but you need to establish what size the lead is & what its condition is. http://www.polypipe.co.uk/cms/toolbox/Terrain_Soil_and_Waste_Technical_Manual.pdf
The scrutiny police :bobby: might just want to understand what it you two are up against so that they can suggest a possible solution (great drawing BTW & as they say saves a thousand words) but next time they might just not bother.

BTW whats with the outside taps in 1/2 an hour? is it some kind of race.

 

[JCplumb]

Thanks for that Chris, to be honest I thought there would be more products on the market for this and we'd find a host of things to try within minutes of my forst post, but it seems I was wrong.
If we get the job we could always refer that part to the lead expert that will be doing the hidden gutters and other lead work.
Thanks muchly for all the advice given here, again 'if' we get the job, photos and measurements will follow.

 

[JCplumb]

Oh the outside taps thing: It was a bit of a wind up reflecting an old post where some (not very) 'handy' man was calling anyone a cowboy if he could do an outside tap in less than 90 minutes.

 

[chris watkins]

Thanks for that Chris, to be honest I thought there would be more products on the market for this and we'd find a host of things to try within minutes of my forst post, but it seems I was wrong.
If we get the job we could always refer that part to the lead expert that will be doing the hidden gutters and other lead work.
Thanks muchly for all the advice given here, again 'if' we get the job, photos and measurements will follow.

Good luck, one of those jobs you kind of don't want but do for the experience, whatever you do it is likely to be a bit of an adaption but at least the joint will be in the right direction of flow & the heat shrink should not crush the lead, as said before just don't like em rubber & jubilee joints.

 

[kay-jay]

Joe you're getting confused pal. The pipe installed by the builder was indeed 110 soil and at the front of the building running internally and behind all those soundproof boards.

The lead rainwater that needs rerouting is in the opposite corner on the stairwell and is definately omly about 70mm.

 

[JCplumb]

The drawing's not to scale Kev

 

[stevetheplumber]

just use the right sized fernco m8 there used every where now even on new builds once you get it tighted on to the lead you could even dress the edge of the lead out a bit from inside the coupling but doubt if you need to

 

[850Rick]

done a few lead soil stuff but never downpipes, i am sure you can get a black rubber which fits in the lead but not sure if its as big as you need but you could allways use a flex seal which looks like this View attachment 15771

I used one of these last weekend.I bought it from selco and felt like I got ripped off lol.I had to use it to replace the broken pottery drain to connect the plastic one to it.Apprently its the new regs