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Discuss Info for people considering fast tracking in the Plumbing Courses area at UKPlumbersForums.co.uk.

  1. fuzzy

    fuzzy Guest

    the gov have done their bit, not saying they are perfect obviously not but the last labour gov were good on education

    some people feel hard done too now they struggle to convert their tc 6129's, i understand that and feel sorry for them but they should have done their home work better, not do it then blame plumbers who are struggling to make a living for not letting them in, it aint like that
     
  2. tamz

    tamz Guest

    What i find hard to comprehend is people who claim to have done their reasearch, spent X amount of thousands and cry they have no recognised qualification with no chance of a job. If they had really done their research they would find you don't need any qualifications to trade as a plumber. They could have bought a couple of books a half decent van and a good set of tools for the same cash. They still wouldn't be employable but could go do their own thing and make just as much of a mess up of things than if they had been "trained".
    Theory training is nothing without practical experience and you learn that fastest by your mistakes. Wreck the odd house now and again and you'll remember what not to do :lol:
     
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  3. GQuigley67

    GQuigley67 Trusted Plumber GSR

    lol true, after a few expensive public liability claims and feeling like a prat when asked to fix things you dont have a clue about
     
  4. fuzzy

    fuzzy Guest

    well said tamz, they appear to have researched and listened to the bits they wanted to hear, then blame lumbers for being obstructive.

    with the new quals you dont even get a tech cert, you get to know your working towards!! so you dont even get any qual without a job, give it 12 months there will be some desperate people wanting jobs to justify all that money for no qual
     
  5. tamz

    tamz Guest

    When signing up to these courses it is a case of it is easy to believe someone when they tell you what you want to hear.

    Later, it can be hard to listen to what you don't want to hear, by which time, the reality starts to sink in, which makes it painfull listening.
     
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  6. bikeman01

    bikeman01 New Member

    So whats the problem then? Anyone whos done a course and has a bit of diy nounce can use what they've learnt and get on with it.

    The only prob seems to be getting their portfolio for gas safe.

    I guess once working in the industry for themselves they'll get experience and then through the contacts they make perhaps get that required portfolio.

    I don't think these courses are a waste of money, they might be a bit expensive but accept that they just provide some theory and a bit of coursework to get you started. Go in with your eyes open and dont expect that a 4 week course + £7k to = new career.

    Lets hope more people read these threads and attend these courses knowing what they are getting. Of course if they are being missold then there needs to be some wrist slapping.

    I knew none of this yesterday but I think my eyes are now fully open.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2011
  7. leelister6

    leelister6 Plumber GSR

    You also have to remember that a good reputation is extremely difficult to build and so very easy to lose! The first time a new business cocks a relatively simple job up through lack of experience, word spreads like wildfire and you may as well hang up yer pipeslice! You need to have the sense to know when to walk away from a job that is beyond you and not "Have a go, whats the worst that could happen!"
     
  8. bikeman01

    bikeman01 New Member

    maybe, although 'Rogue Traders' suggests that some just have to change their company name to keep getting away with it.

    I'm already self-employed so I know the value of a happy customer.
     
  9. fuzzy

    fuzzy Guest

    So whats the problem then? Anyone whos done a course and has a bit of diy nounce can use what they've learnt and get on with it. This is a very simplistic view, i dont think anyone with 'a bit of nounce' can do gas, as i previously said based on my experience those with a little knowledge are more dangerous. Plumbing is not just bathrooms, something else people need to realise

    The only prob seems to be getting their portfolio for gas safe. The only prob? what about the plumbing nvq? what about a workplace recorder?

    I guess once working in the industry for themselves they'll get experience and then through the contacts they make perhaps get that required portfolio. You need to be working with a gas safe registered engineer who is willing to sign to say you have done at least 140 days work on gas supervised by him/her, thats presuming you have go the nvq/s, without them its 240 days

    I don't think these courses are a waste of money, they might be a bit expensive but accept that they just provide some theory and a bit of coursework to get you started. Go in with your eyes open and dont expect that a 4 week course + £7k to = new career. depends what the course is,, the 6129 has a poor reputation, however i maintain it is a very good course, better than people give it credit for, however its reputation is poor so for potential earnings afterwards it probably is a waste of money

    Lets hope more people read these threads and attend these courses knowing what they are getting. Of course if they are being missold then there needs to be some wrist slapping. 'wrist slapping' bit late by then im afraid, 7k out of pocket and no career

    I knew none of this yesterday but I think my eyes are now fully open.​Im glad to hear it, i hope people do this research sooner in future
     
  10. fuzzy

    fuzzy Guest

    Not a business plan i would recommend, do a bad job, change name, and so on. You wonder why these courses have a bad name?
     
  11. bikeman01

    bikeman01 New Member

    I think you misinterpreted my post. I was advocating a stepped approach to a new career:
    1. a bit of theory/practical training as a foot into plumbing,
    2. self employment within your skillset (plumbling bathrooms etc) - stop there and be a plumber or
    3. as you make contacts do the gas trainning and work towards your gas portfolio with your new found friends in the trade assessing you,
    4. finally gas safe registered, get more demanding work.

    So if thats not a practical approach for someone who cant get a traineee position what is?

    The 6129 may have a poor reputation but surely it's just a part of the bigger training picture and just needs to be followed on by other moree specialised traing and poractical experience.

    Secondly, it's not surprising that some get conned. The path to entry is frankly confusing. A multitude of training courses, many leading to unrecognised qualifications, the promotion of a lie that 6129 is all you need, forum members more intent on slagging off formal training as 'fast tracking and worthless' without accepting that formal training is a necessary part for new entrants and gas safe themselves who dont make it clear what they require. Slapping the wrist of companies who missell their training courses will prevent them from making unrealistic claims and conning others.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2011
  12. fuzzy

    fuzzy Guest

    I think you misinterpreted my post. I was advocating a stepped approach to a new career:
    1. a bit of theory/practical training as a foot into plumbing,
    2. self employment within your skillset (plumbling bathrooms etc) - stop there and be a plumber or
    3. as you make contacts do the gas trainning and work towards your gas portfolio with your new found friends in the trade assessing you,
    4. finally gas safe registered, get more demanding work.

    So if thats not a practical approach for someone who cant get a traineee position what is? That is a more realistic approach than you seemed to suggest before. I'm sure if followed it could lead to a competent engineer, however, several of the stages are very difficult and you should be aware of that. You have missed out the NVQ bits and you say 'gas port folio' not all places ask for a port folio, its a list of jobs that you have done and wrote down ie 'fitted boiler', 'fitted pipework' and then signed by a gas safe registered engineer who supervised all the work whilst it took place

    The 6129 may have a poor reputation but surely it's just a part of the bigger training picture and just needs to be followed on by other moree specialised traing and poractical experience. No more specialied training needed to be a qualified plumber, just need to prove you can apply skills learnt on 6129 in a real working environment to obtain 6089

    Secondly, it's not surprising that some get conned. The path to entry is frankly confusing. A multitude of training courses, many leading to unrecognised qualifications, the promotion of a lie that 6129 is all you need, forum members more intent on slagging off formal training as 'fast tracking and worthless' without accepting that formal training is a necessary part for new entrants and gas safe themselves who dont make it clear what they require. Slapping the wrist of companies who missell their training courses will prevent them from making unrealistic claims and conning others. The pathway is not confusing, in fact its very simple, some places may be at an advantage making you thing its confusing. if the courses are miss sold or people are being bluffed then that is not the fault of the system but of the people doing the bluffing. Do you really think wrist slapping will stop them?
     
  13. fuzzy

    fuzzy Guest

    Quote "forum members more intent on slagging off formal training as 'fast tracking and worthless' without accepting that formal training is a necessary part for new entrants"


    There in lies the real problem, you think all responses are simply 'slagging off' I think this is very ignorant of the facts. Every qualified engineer recognises that formal training is a necessary part for new entrants, all apprentices do this, every time served engineer has gone through this process. Not all formal training is fast track, not all is worthless. Some are fast track and some are worthless, it depends what the formal training is.

    People often say "what is more important, training/courses or experience"

    Well, its both, an apprenticeship has the correct balance of training and experiences, one without the other is not worthless but limited, people need both elements to be deemed competent.

    Not sure were you have your facts from previously but i feel you will benefit from some independent advice and guidance
     
  14. fuzzy

    fuzzy Guest

    never saw any vacancies for what, plumbers or plumbing apprentices?
     
  15. Jim1

    Jim1 Guest

    Fast Track Training is not the greatest, but it is a starting point for people with the right mind set, it has never been or will ever make someone a professional plumber. It is a starting point of a very long learning curve that never stops because the trade will just keep evolving. People need to research what it is they actually want before parting with silly amounts of money, research costs nothing!!
     
  16. longers

    longers Guest

    Exactly how I feel and the same position I find myself in!
     
  17. fuzzy

    fuzzy Guest

    what position is that longers
     
  18. longers

    longers Guest

    I was commenting on someones message about training to become a plumber the best way you can/available to you. But my post is pages away from his comment, woops! I cant afford to go to college full time and have to work and train. I am going from being a company director to an apprentice. So I am aware of my limitations and I am honest enough to know when a job is beyond my skills. But I believe in making my own path and this is what I am doing
     
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  19. fuzzy

    fuzzy Guest

    i wish you luck, if you know all the facts and have made an informed judgement i wish you all the best. I just hope you dont turn into one of those who start looking for excuses if you struggle
     
  20. longers

    longers Guest

    I saw good feedback and bad about the schemes. It suits me although I am nervous about the jump in career and salary. I asked when I signed up about apprentice schemes and how the quick route compares and was kind of fobbed off. I knew that when I was at Taymech/Taylor Woodrow the apprentices did about 4 years and went to college. I understand 5 weeks practical wont get me the same understanding as them but I understand it from the engineers side so I kind of think that helps me a bit and I might not be as green as others doing the courses. But looking forward to finding out and I hope people start spending money on bathooms and new heating systems!! Thanks for you encouragement!
     
  21. Mheppolette

    Mheppolette New Member

    I'm thinking of doing a gas engineer course and I was wondering what peoples opinion on this is? Im planning on going with a company called Access Training Academy, what are the chance of me getting a job after completing the course and being on the gas safe register?
    Thanks
     
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  22. Trotter31

    Trotter31 New Member

    First thing to realise with the t4ts course is, upon completion of the 5 weeks practical, you will only be qualified to the level of Plumbers Mate.
    You will need to do Site Training, (about 3 weeks, I believe) before becoming qualified to NVQ Level 2.
    Site Training costs extra in most cases.
    Something to look into before taking the plunge.
     
  23. Clanger

    Clanger Active Member

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  24. ShaunCorbs

    ShaunCorbs S. Mod Trusted Plumber GSR Top Contributor!!

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