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Discuss Info for people considering fast tracking in the Plumbing Courses area at UKPlumbersForums.co.uk.

  1. GQuigley67

    GQuigley67 Trusted Plumber GSR

    anyone thinking of paying thousands of pounds for a fast track course should read this article first

    [DLMURL="http://www.ciphe.org.uk/News/Are-fast-track-plumbing-courses-just-money-down-the-drain/"]Are fast-track plumbing courses just money down the drain? - CIPHE[/DLMURL]

    short part of article:

    Some companies offering fast-track courses claim there is a nationwide shortage of plumbers. "The country is in dire need of qualified plumbers," says Train4TradeSkills on its website, quoting a former trainee who "never takes home less than £1,200 per week". New Career Skills, another private training company, says in its latest brochure: "The massive plumbing shortage provides an opportunity for those who want a lucrative, secure and fulfilling career."
    The reality can be very different. Ivor Bates, who runs a London plumbing firm, Bates Heating and Plumbing, says he is contacted three or four times each week by people who have completed a fast-track course and are desperate for work experience to achieve the industry-standard NVQ level 2.
    "Around 10% of these guys offer to work for nothing and say they have rung endless plumbing companies and will do anything to get a foot in the door," he says. "One bloke saw my van outside Asda and ran into the supermarket after me and offered to pay me to take him on. But I would never take someone from one of these short courses because they have not got experience of working on-site and I would not be confident sending them into customers' homes."
     
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    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 1, 2017
  2. Blackcatgas

    Blackcatgas Plumber GSR

    Like all the best cons, it relies on peoples greed, promises of 50k a year etc,people will become blinkerd, even when confronted with the truth people will still do these courses.
     
  3. GQuigley67

    GQuigley67 Trusted Plumber GSR

    thought its a good article to have on here though, as it is from CIPHE who are a governing body
     
  4. pauls

    pauls Guest

    one bloke takes home a minimum os £1,200 a week i wish they way things are at the moment im lucky to get that a month lol
     
  5. GQuigley67

    GQuigley67 Trusted Plumber GSR

    maybe i wrote the title wrong think it should be "info for people considering fast tracking" if one of the mods can change it or something ?
     
  6. fuzzy

    fuzzy Guest

    ive been saying it for ages on here. i am worried they will ruin the plumbing industry with their lies and then leave. leaving us to pick up the pieces
     
  7. Bartdude

    Bartdude Guest

    I had 2 letters asking for a job this week.
     
  8. Puddle

    Puddle Plumber

    no problem,was that one suger or two :p:)

    Good article, must admit, I must be a skin flint coz if I was going to shell out over £7000 or just over a couple of weeks wages :), I would really research and investigate what I was getting into and what I would be getting out of it

    I always say to people, think about the hobby you have, look how long it took to be good at it and that is something you are probably really interesting in, remember the books you read on it in the beginning and the hours you listened to others with experience ,then think how long it took you to put it all into practice, to learn the little tricks and mistakes you still made, mistakes you have to make, to learn, you soon realise you can not learn any profession in such a short period

    Slowly the puddles become smaller but until they do you need an experienced person by your side showing you the best way to mop up

    £7000 is a lot of money but it can not mop up a lot

    imho


     
    • Like Like x 1
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2011
  9. GQuigley67

    GQuigley67 Trusted Plumber GSR

    here's another bit of info

    [DLMURL="http://www.unitetheunion.org/sectors/construction/industry_news/fast_track_plumber_training_-_.aspx"]Fast Track Plumber Training - Beware[/DLMURL]

    now I've came across these 2 pages with only about an hour or so of research, why don't these people do the same ?
     
    • Like Like x 1
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 1, 2017
  10. fuzzy

    fuzzy Guest

    "organisations advertising themselves, quite legally, as City & Guilds registered, but they are not registered to deliver the specific plumbing qualification so the learner cannot be certified"

    my point when people come on here saying "i have a city and guilds" a city and guids what?
     
  11. fuzzy

    fuzzy Guest

    and that latest one is 5 years old!
     
  12. Barry98

    Barry98 Guest

  13. fuzzy

    fuzzy Guest

    lol, loks like another who has given up and wrote off their 7/8k
     
  14. Bartdude

    Bartdude Guest

  15. Gray0689

    Gray0689 Trusted Plumber GSR

    Few decent items in that lot to
     
  16. plumbster3456

    plumbster3456 Guest

    bye the things i hear on here I think this has already happened down south I bet its actually homeowners who are doing these courses as they are terrified that they are going to get another cowboy dong work in there homes lol.
     
  17. Dannypipe

    Dannypipe Trusted Plumber GSR

    What bothers me, is that they sell finance to these people, telling them they'll be earning so much, that they'll probably pay it off early.

    I met a bloke who was about 40 years old, and had borrowed nearly 13K (yes 13,000) to go from nothing to Gas Safe Registered.

    He fell at the first hurdle when he didn't read the small print, and realised it was down to him to find someone to sign of his portfolios, his NVQ 2, his NVQ 3 and his gas portfolio.

    He was in the merchants begging people to let him tag along for free. He bent my ear for half hour and I realised nice as he was, he'd slow me down too much, and when he finally did have the experience, he'd leave and pitch up as my competitor. So I along with everyone else I saw declined.

    What's he up to now I wonder? My guess is he went back to his old job, and licked his wounds. Must still be making his payments.

    The funny thing to me is, we're just plumbers, not premier league footballers. There's no glamour in our work. The money can be ok, but its not epic by any means.

    People believe everything they read in the papers. So frankly if they're foolish enough to listen to the speil, and not see through it, then they have themselves to blame, at least partly.
     
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    Last edited: Mar 21, 2011
  18. plumbster3456

    plumbster3456 Guest

    lol 13 grand to go to college then? no apprenticeship nothing at all except a seat in a classroom come on guys surely there isnt people crazy enough to do this.
    plumbing is no gold mine if you want this become a banker,, some plumbers earn good money but these are the ones that are very good and this you wont be bye doing one of these courses.
    I think it is actually a con why is the government or trading standards not investigating these colleges who do this to people ?
     
  19. fuzzy

    fuzzy Guest

    met someone the other day who had spent 10k and had his 6129 level 2 and 3. he was doing the same, desperate for a placement to get his nvq;s. How do these people continue to fall for the rubbish they are told? they fall for the promise of money, heres to another one dropping out with 10k less than he started with
     
  20. Bartdude

    Bartdude Guest

    Exactly.It can be a good living,but we all know how hard you have to work for it.

    My brother-in-law runs a computer games company,and he's the one earning top money,not me!
     
  21. Resolute

    Resolute Guest

    When I went to college to complete my 6129 I knew I had to complete my portfolio to get my NVQ as I'd researched it. However the college didn't mention it and no one else on the course realised until I said. They all thought that the course they were on would leave them qualified.
     
  22. fuzzy

    fuzzy Guest

    i remeber one lad coming talking to me who had been to college and was going mad that he was on a 6129 and he had been promised the nvq. when he showed me the induction material it clearly stated 6129 only, nothing was mentioned about the nvq

    people see and hear what they want to see and hear
     
  23. Resolute

    Resolute Guest

    Too true!
     
  24. Hutchey

    Hutchey Guest

    why are there so many negative comments?
    Does learning this from a young age at college or Uni etc mean its better than distance learning?

    I'm a Project Manager and was laid off last year when BSF was axed. Next to nothing since. No money equals no projects equals no jobs.
    Back in the good days the money was great but with up to 6hrs travelling per day it takes its toll.
    Now i'm not saying its rosey here or there but if a late 30's guy like me wants to retrain whilst trying to pay bills, what other choices do we have?
    Too old for college, too old for apprenticeships (if there are any of these left).
    So the only avenue is something like this.
    For me it's about quality of life, less of a commute and frankly i've had enough of projects inefficiencies, wasting money, failed deliveries, changing politics etc that cause so much aggro each day.
    I suspect plumbing also has its down sides but id like to be the one to find out.
    I'd like to work for someone. I've been self employed for years and it has good and bad points.

    I'm only part of my way through one of these courses and i'm finding it flexible to allow me to try to find soem work to pay the bills whilst i learn.
    I've been very fortunate that a plumber allowed me to help him with a load of new pipe work installation.
    He showed me the very basics and allowed me to solder, bend, install radiators, help drain the system and also threw some questions at me on some topics.

    So come on folk, its not our fault we chose this path, maybe we think the grass is greener but let us try to find out.
    For one i'd be losing masses financially but then its not as important for me now as my priorities have changed.

    no offence to anyone, just my thoughts at this early stage.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  25. GQuigley67

    GQuigley67 Trusted Plumber GSR

    when i was at college, there were about 3 40+ guys in my class. They managed to get apprenticeships, and I know alot of other people that did also. My point when posting this was these courses are making it out that we earn millions when we dont, and pointing out that to an employer you are not in any way attractive unless you have NVQ level 2 at least in england or SVQ level 3 in scotland, then its all about experience the more experience you have the more chance you have of getting a job.

    The point is these courses are promising lies, and false hope. I accept that there are a minority who go on to become sucsesful but most give up and cut their loses and go back to their old jobs
     
  26. smartallick

    smartallick Guest

    Hi Hutchey,

    I'm new to this myself. I am thinking about starting the new 6189 course and also have a plumber willing to help me through it with the onsite visits from the NVQ assessors. As you have experienced the courses would you advise this route being 35 and wanting to change jobs into plumbing. Nice to see someone not been so negative about it all.
     
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  27. fuzzy

    fuzzy Guest

    you are confusing negative with realistic. I can be as positive as you like many sales people i mean centre advisors will be positive. Just pay them the money and they will be very positive, i garantee it
     
  28. GQuigley67

    GQuigley67 Trusted Plumber GSR

    were not being negative we are being realistic, the amount of people i know with experience that arent working the now is unreal, if they cant get a job then how do you expect to get one with your 6129 or whatever its called ?
     
  29. Hutchey

    Hutchey Guest

    there's mass unemployment accross the board. Some builders, electricians and plumbers i know have weeks of work stacked up - other have very little if any.
    All i want is the chance to at least try something different. Either way right now i have nothing to lose as no work is no work!
    Nowhere is taking on apprentices and colleges told me i was too old so what can you do.
    I'm not sure if i'd recommend it or not as not being on this long at all. Only 9 modules in and on the Water Regs bit now.
    Right now, for me this feels like the good thing to do.
     
  30. Hutchey

    Hutchey Guest

    the nvq bit is worth checking up on though. not just the 61?? bit.
     
  31. GQuigley67

    GQuigley67 Trusted Plumber GSR

    the NVQ is essential if you want to be classed as a plumber, you wont be recognised as one without it, i.e CSCS cards CIPHE membership etc
     
  32. Gavin

    Gavin Guest

    It's amazing people are still forking out big ££££ for courses that leave them high and dry. It's down to you to research the career you are looking into. How thick do you have to be to go into something where it costs you a fortune to be not qualified and there is barely a lick of work about?

    The eyes see only what the mind wants. The suckers who are lured into parting with cash for these courses deserve everything they get.
     
  33. Hutchey

    Hutchey Guest

    i think that's a very narrow minded view Gavin
    If you were looking at getting into my line of work, you'd be looking at retraining and having to beg for work, pay extortionate amounts for some courses (some are cheapish), spending ages trawling through manuals and doing practicals (in some cases too)

    with this type of attitude no wonder this country gets a bad reputation with its workforce.
     
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  34. johnmcginty

    johnmcginty Guest

    I can't believe it took them cihpe that long to put this info on their website, even last year if you went on it it said itself there were a shortage of plumbers...crazy... I mean I did fasttrack back in the day and I only pull in £1100 a week ...never mind this crazy £1200 a week nonesense ;)
     
  35. tamz

    tamz Guest

    I think i have posted this link before but here it is again
    http://www.snijib.org/documents/PolicyPaperNo1FAstTrackTraining300909final.pdf

    and another quote
    TRAINING SCHOOLS ROBBING STUDENTS
    Industry unites against ‘rogue trainers’


    Training schools which offer qualifications and then fail to deliver are costing students thousands of pounds, says the Plumbing and Heating Industry Alliance (PHIA). The Alliance, which represents some 20-trade bodies with over 30,000 members in the UK, is campaigning to put an end to what it calls ‘rogue trainers’. PHIA chairman, Chris Sneath says, “There’s a crazy situation where anyone can set themselves up as a training school and claim to teach someone to be a qualified plumber in as little as four weeks. Needless to say, these get rich quick merchants charge a fortune - I’ve heard of as much as £5000 - but the would-be plumbers parting with their money end up with virtually nothing, certainly not the means to start a legitimate career in our industry. It’s nothing short of daylight robbery.”


    The industry’s accepted qualification for a plumber is National or Scottish Vocational Qualification (NVQ or SVQ) at Level 3. Typically this takes a minimum of two to three years training on the job, combined with study at a recognised training provider – such as college of further education. Chris Sneath again: “The entire plumbing and heating industry recognises the NVQ at level 3, a completed formal apprenticeship or appropriate experience over many years as the minimum for a legitimate plumber. Un-regulated trainers will often turn out cowboy plumbers, with all the risks to public health that entails. But sad to say, the government doesn’t want to know. I’ve personally spoken to government representatives but their attitude is to claim they don’t want to interfere in what they call ‘free market practice”.


    The Plumbing & Heating Industry Alliance is asking the media to support its campaign by refusing advertising from these rogue trainers. “We often see adverts for them contained in newspaper career supplements,” says Chris Sneath. “We do realise that it’s not always easy to instantly recognise the good from the bad but we at the Alliance are very happy to offer advice.” The PHIA hopes that its campaign will help to eradicate what has become a problem across the country, with countless thousands of pounds being lost by innocent people seeking a career in our industry.


    The Plumbing & Heating Industry Alliance includes:


    • The Institute of Plumbing and Heating Engineering (IPHE)
    • The Heating and Ventilating Contractors Association (HVCA)
    • The Association of Plumbing and Heating Contractors (APHC)
    • SummitSkills (The Sector Skills Council for the Industry)
    • The Worshipful Company of Plumbers
    • The Scottish and Northern Ireland Plumbing Employers Federation (SNIPEF)
    • The Joint Industry Board for Plumbing and Mechanical
      Engineering Services in England and Wales
    • British Plumbing Employers Council Training Ltd (BPEC)
    • The Institute of Domestic Heating and Environmental Engineers (IDHE)
    • National Association of Plumbing Teachers (NAPT)
    • The Bathroom Manufacturers Association (BMA)
    You may think these people and organisations just like to shout at the moon and would like the industry to be a closed shop but that is not the case.

    I think Puddle put it across excellently in his analogy
    Anyone thinking of doing one of these courses should think hard and realistically before spending their cash on what may turn out to be an expensive lesson in life.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 23, 2011
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