Hybrid systems providing loads more earnings

[efficiencyman]

Have you guys read this ?
Hybrid systems - the latest news - STIEBEL ELTRON Great Britain
Bivalent systems could very well be the way in the future !
I am still happy with my Hybrid set up. The more installers who become knowlegable on how to do right could be onto loads more earnings on systems that are done well and gain a good reputation.

 

[SimonG]

I still read hybrid for cobbled together.

But the increased earnings bit has piqued my curiosity

 

[missplumb]

after reading that article, i dont feel that installing a bivalent system to a house on the premise that it will be ok to only provide 80% of the heat demand and then use an immersion heater to make up the shortfall to be a good investment, also alot of the issues of heat pump installations was that they were undersizing them, hence why OFGEM/DECC decided that if they were to be allowed under the RHPP then they had to provide 100% of the demand. It would be a much better offer for people living off the gas grid to install a biomass boiler.

I dont install heat pumps but have dealt with them in the past and have never been a great fan! and yes i now only install biomass boilers

 

[Nostrum]

You don't normally as it doesn't make sense, instead you maintain the existing boiler. It has quite a few benefits, radiator sizes can remain the same, hot water can be heated above 50 without using the immersion and the heat pump automatically switches off when the temp drops to below 3 degrees and fires the boiler, meaning the cop stays high.

They are eligible for RHI providing a meter is installed.

 

[Worcester]

Properly designed bivalents work well.

We NEVER us the inbuilt immersions and ALWAYS disable them

|We use bivalent in two ways,
1) To boost output of GSHP when the load is too great
2) To replace an ASHP when the CoP would drop too low,

Metered in both environments it's not an issue.

Managing the Bivalent point though is a very interesting discussion...

 

[Nostrum]

Use a product that does it for you!

 

[Worcester]

Use a product that does it for you!

The challenge is how you calculate the bivalent point....

You need to take many different factors into account
Outside Temp
Inside Temp required
Current Inside Temp (if has been set back)
Efficiency of the renewable heating source at that point
Efficiency of the back up heating source
Cost of energy source to the renewbale source (e.g electricity in a Heat Pump)
Cost of back up heating source enrgy supply

So an LPG back up will have a different point from an oil back up or mains gas back up
A GSHP will have a different point from an ASHP.
Different makes will have different performance characteristics
Also as the fuel costs vary (gas goes up and down, so does oil, LPG and 'leccy ) that point will change as well.
And if built into a particular unit then of course it only works with THAT particular unit, so not generic...
is it supporting/assisting or replacing

So every single installation will have a different bivalent point, and that point could vary from day to day hour by hour.
So - what is the off the shelf product that manages that?

 

[Ermintrude]

Bit of software a few differential equations and ideally a realtime variable input ( prices from tinternet?)

 

[Pipes Plumbing]

Build that and you will have made your millions....

 

[Ermintrude]

Really? I'm on it it's a bit of a basic?

 

[Pipes Plumbing]

Sold either as a packaged solution with an I/O controller to the open market, or sold as a license to use the code and theory to the OEMs... Either way I reckon you'd have a few good evenings out on the back of it!

 

[Ermintrude]

It's being done right now me old fruity

 

[Worcester]

Have a look at this website:

Home | OpenEnergyMonitor

I have about 18 environmental inputs going into one and a whole bunch of monitoring, including realtime sensors on the top and bottom of the DHW cylinder

If you can program in basic then learning the Arduino code is simple

Back it up if nescessary with a few of these JeeNode - Hardware - JeeLabs . net (as an alternative to the emontx)

And once you decided the logic you'll have everything you need. It's the logic that needs a week away from work to design and parameterise including options to skip certain criteria - nice big flowchart

For simple buffer tank management when the heat pumps or biomass boilers aren't clever enough these work really well - simple, reliable, inexpensive and incredibly flexible to set up.: SOLAR panel differential Temperature Controller for hot water boiler & +2 SENSOR | eBay though usually use them like these: Dual Temperature Controller 2-channel DOUBLE THERMOSTAT regulator & + 2 SENSOR | eBay or these: All-Purpose Temperature Controller HEATING&COOLING THERMOSTAT regulator + SENSOR | eBay

 

[Pipes Plumbing]

Thanks for the links there, that has just become very useful!