Hep2o - does it stand the test of time???

[cadcock]

Hello all

I am now in the process of installing a full central heating system on my 3 bed detached house whilst still living in it, not easy! The plumber fitted a remeha 24c in the garage and I'm now fitting all the rads and have already plumbed in a kinetico softener. I was sceptical of using plastic pipe and was set on using copper but when the plumber told me about Hep2o and I researched it the credentials of it looked really good so rightly or wrongly I went with it! Having read some of the threads on this and other forums I'm beginning to wonder if I'll regret it, has anyone installed a full central heating system that is say 10 years old plus and working ok without leaks etc? I'm using The new generation white Hep2o. I must say having used copper it is fantastic to use, cheaper and at least twice as quick doing my particular job but will it be cheaper in the long run !???

Any constructive comments welcome please

 

[Guest123]

Although I personally don't like the new generation Hep20 system, plastic in general gets such a bad press due to incorrect installation by novices who know nothing about it. With ANY plumbing system that you've never used before, always FULLY RESEARCH the correct installation procedures from the maufacturers website. If you follow these installation procedures, then you should have a trouble free installation and a valid warranty from the manufacturers.

Please be aware that many plastic pushfit fittings cannot be used long term in temperatures exceeding 65 degrees. These fittings are always marked as such. Fittings that can withstand the higher temperatures found in a heating system are also marked as such.

No one can give you any idea of service life as it hasn't been around long enough. Copper has been here for generations and lasts a very long time.

 

[mike-c]

Make sure to use only the Barrier version of the Hep on a pressurised heating system. I have used hardly any copper in the last few years on heating and domestic systems and have had no problems whatsoever.

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

hep2o will be reliable if you use compression fittings with inserts ,copper will last just as long both have there advantages and disadvantages for example hep20 will not break down in cement,copper will if not denso taped however copper looks far better than plastic

 

[clarky101]

Hep 2o is alright but im not keen on the white version, i prefer polyplumb & have used a lot of it with hardly any problems. Have always used copper in places that can be seen ie rad tails, drops, cylinder cupboards etc....
Only use the hep spray grease or polyplumb equalvalent as normal silicone grease breaks the rubber seals down pretty quickly.....as i once found out...

 

[Guest123]

Only use the hep spray grease or polyplumb equalvalent as normal silicone grease breaks the rubber seals down pretty quickly.....as i once found out...

Wasn't aware of that. I assume that the same applies for JG Speedfit, although I've not come across a lubricant manufactured by them? I've been using Floplast silicone spray with Speedfit for a couple of outside tap installations, so are you saying this is incorrect?

 

[clarky101]

We done a site that needed 28mm run in hep in i beams about 12 years ago & found it tough pushing the fittings on, nipped out to the groundworkers, borrowed thier grease, pushed it together easy.....6-8 weeks later every one of those joints went one after another ,house after house....luckly they were all sealed systems so not to much water damage, but plenty of floors up....

We had been on hep nights but no-one had ever mentioned this...then there spray appeared...

 

[clarky101]

Wasn't aware of that. I assume that the same applies for JG Speedfit, although I've not come across a lubricant manufactured by them? I've been using Floplast silicone spray with Speedfit for a couple of outside tap installations, so are you saying this is incorrect?

Just check the label, not heard of floplast so cant say....i just use the hep spray now....

 

[WHPES]

Another vote for PolyPlumb.

Personally I thought the original Hepworth system (HPB) was better than the two later incarnations of Hep20.

 

[hammers4spanner]

Ialways use polyplumb as prefer it than the white hep but thats just my preference doesn't mean its better,

As for the grease i dont bother spending £15 on the way over priced tubs just get some wash liquid for 99p lasts just as long and does job and never had a seal deteriorate from it.

 

[Bernie2]

Speaking as a mouse "I enjoy a good chew on plastic as a rodent it helps with my teeth" Speaking as an air bubble "I like plastic pipe I can get into the water and have a swim" Speaking as a pressure "I can blow a push fit apart for no apparent reason" Speaking as a sharp projection "I just love plastic its nice and easy to rub away" Speaking as a plumber "Its nice and easy to fit" "Its quite" "No slummy" "Goes like spaghetti when hot" "Needs lots of support" "Not necessarily cheap" "Fairly acid resistant" "Does not like oil" "Easy to put a hole in" Hmm!

 

[WHPES]

A handyman who reckoned he was a plumber once let on to a friend he had a customer who called him about a flood on work he had done and he said he reckoned a joint had blow apart but he filed away at a plastic fitting, showed it to a customer and said it was mice that had caused the flood.

 

[Best]

Bernie2 summed plastic up well. I would just add that if the boiler ever overheats up to boiling point then the barrier pipe pulls apart like a balloon & splits. I wouldn't also like to hear mice in a plastic plumbed house. I think plastic will be cursed by the public in the years to come & already people are finding out it's disadvantages.
My opinion about plastic is if you are doing it for yourself, or if a plumber uses it on your house at a cheaper price than copper, then fair enough, otherwise copper is perfect for heating systems. Surely the price of copper pipe with end feed fittings is little different than plastic pipe (which is not that cheap!) with expensive plastic fittings - often more than you would use with copper as copper pipe can be bent, plus all those inserts add up!

 

[markfxy]

Bernie's summing up is a load of nonsense form someone who probably never uses plastic, Ive never had a problem with mice, air ingress or fittings blowing off. we use a lot of hep and will continue to do so.

 

[Best]

Bernie's summing up is a load of nonsense form someone who probably never uses plastic, Ive never had a problem with mice, air ingress or fittings blowing off. we use a lot of hep and will continue to do so.

Hep themselves, & I think all other manufacturers of plastic pipes & fittings say not suitable where there's rodents. That's every house IMO. I haven't seen rodent damage on plastic myself, but heard of it happening. Fittings blowing off or weeping is very common.
If a heating system overheats then the plastic goes to tissue paper. Copper for heating every day. ( plastic underfloor heating working at low temps is a different thing )

 

[markfxy]

Hep themselves, & I think all other manufacturers of plastic pipes & fittings say not suitable where there's rodents. That's every house IMO. I haven't seen rodent damage on plastic myself, but heard of it happening. Fittings blowing off or weeping is very common.
If a heating system overheats then the plastic goes to tissue paper. Copper for heating every day. ( plastic underfloor heating working at low temps is a different thing )

more nonsense

 

[Best]

more nonsense

Not nonsense, lol! I have samples of Hep pipe that prove what happens it when it meets very hot water.
As to rodent damage, it is well known what can happen, however unlikely it may be.
A heating engineer friend had to change an oil boiler that had drained of water. He was puzzled why the plastic pipes had little holes over them.....

 

[AWheating]

rodent damage should be a concern and taken into account if the property suffers from rodent problems. As reguard heat damage, any plastic pipe will get damaged by long exposure to very high temps but most plastic can take fault temps for very short periods.

as reguards silly grease, i use spit

 

[Koogatubac]

No votes on speedfit here? Quite suprising... In north east theres alot of demand with speedfit. Used polyplumb before, is it the cheapest plastic aswell do you know?
Im not a fan of plastic, but seems like the only way to win jobs nowadays just like it when you get a job like replace a gas pipe because its all copper

 

[stevetheplumber]

usual drivel about plastic on here new builds have been plastic for the last 15 years yes its not as good as copper but then its probably half the price both on matierials and instal costs
its the customers choice
i never have any problem with rodents but i always nail the cat under the boards

 

[WHPES]

I would never recommend plastic in houses that are known to have rodents on a regular basis.

Plastic is always useful in stud walls and kitchens, and in areas where copper would be difficult to install, however copper would always be my first choice.

One property I did repairs on had a mouse chew through plastic pipework in the loft when the owners were away for the weekend. The water caused approximately £8,000 worth of damage not to mention the disruption.

 

[andywatson]

I am currently fitting out a narrowboat and the domestic water and a good bit of the CH system are hep2o.
One problem I have discovered with the new stuff is that the release tool needs about 15mm clearance along the pipe to get it on which is a nuisance on a fitting which occaisionally needs demounting but due to the proximity of the next fitting this doesn't occur.
I am facing this problem where a pipe enters the calorifier at an elbow. I am therefore intending to sacrifice the hep20 .

I intend to drain the system, then cut away the outer skin of the hep2o, then release the grabring with pliers or whatever fits so I can get it off without damaging the brass calorifier entry fitting. I will then use a speedfit or old splittable fitting here
.

Does this make sense to you chaps.?

Apologies if this has been mentioned before but I'm new on here.

 

[WHPES]

You should be using copper in the vicinity of the calorifier and not plastic straight onto it.

Personally I prefer PolyPlumb as it is a lot easier to work with.

 

[tooltarticus]

We done a site that needed 28mm run in hep in i beams about 12 years ago & found it tough pushing the fittings on, nipped out to the groundworkers, borrowed thier grease, pushed it together easy.....6-8 weeks later every one of those joints went one after another ,house after house....luckly they were all sealed systems so not to much water damage, but plenty of floors up....
We had been on hep nights but no-one had ever mentioned this...then there spray appeared...

the horrible gack that groundworkers use to put u/ground drainage together is oil based, no wonder you had drama ...smells like old chip fat! I've used flowplast and plumbcenter silicone greases and sprays on hep fitting for years and never had that issue!

 

[tooltarticus]

oh and re: new gen hep...loathe it. I remind them of this whenever I catch a hapless rep (but yes I will take the pens,the t shirt, the release keys and anything else he doesn't have nailed down thank you) or see them post on facebook

 

[clarky101]

the horrible gack that groundworkers use to put u/ground drainage together is oil based, no wonder you had drama ...smells like old chip fat! I've used flowplast and plumbcenter silicone greases and sprays on hep fitting for years and never had that issue!

This was about 10-12 years back & if that type of grease (sprays,silicone) weren't about or no one told us about them when we went on hep nights with the merchants....easy in hindsight...only had that problem with the stuff and that was our fault...

 

[kay-jay]

No one can give you any idea of service life as it hasn't been around long enough. Copper has been here for generations and lasts a very long time.

how long in your opinion should it have been around to stand the test of time?? JG have been producing plastics since 1961, much of it in industrial applications.

 

[andywatson]

You should be using copper in the vicinity of the calorifier and not plastic straight onto it.
QUOTE]

I have used copper to and from the CH boiler (kabola diesel fired). This runs at about 70C as I use it , and it has an overboil protection set at 90C.
The pressure in the system is only about 2/3 psi max (5 ft head to tank) so I thought this would be within the spec of the pipe.
The calorifier is about 1m by pipe away from the boiler.
It is quite common like this on narrowboats.

 

[Ray Stafford]

how long in your opinion should it have been around to stand the test of time?? JG have been producing plastics since 1961, much of it in industrial applications.

It always amuses me that plumbers who moan about "this new Speedfit stuff" in the pub are probably drinking beer that was drawn through JG pipes and driving a van whose fuel feed system contains JG connectors.

 

[Mike Jackson]

I think the fuel system on my Land Rover is probably piped in lead.

 

[nicro3]

Plastic supplies gas, water to all our homes. So what is the problem?

 

[ManchesterGas]

My house has been piped in hep and JG fittings for 12 years with no issues. I use it on most installations where it is allowed and hidden. I don't use it where it is on show. Never had any issues with any of the installs that I have used it on either.

 

[AWheating]

its not the plastic thats the problem, Its the idiot who fitted it in most cases.

copper,steel's,plastic etc.... all have there place in modern plumbing practices, if installed correctly they all work very well.

 

[kozak1968]

I put speedfit in my house 13 years ago no problems (yet!)

 

[Glenwils]

I'd use copper in my house if I were replacing my heating system.