Helping new guys!

[Bernie2]

I often think people who are self employed are in a very poor position when it comes to getting info and friendly support.

I know how isolating, the feeling your by yourself can be.

Incidentally it can happen to employed Plumber/gas fitters as well.

If your employed and out servicing, your usually by yourself all of the time. If you get a dodgy job, you perhaps need a hand, especially on grey area jobs, if only to run through your decision just in case your wrong.

Most employers think you have total recall of every aspect of all types of Plumbing and gas fitting knowledge ready to be called upon instantly.

If you ask them for help or advice I suppose they may think you do not know your job. And I must admit some of the companies I have worked for, my boss has not been a Plumber/gas fitter to ask.

It would be great to have a relationship with friendly knowledgeable people who would not think less of you, if you have forgotten something you should know. A sort of memory prompter.

If you work as a Plumber/gas fitter for instance and only get a gas job once every so many months, can you be sure you are going to remember the correct procedures for a full gas installation test or what a problem may be?

If you think you know, how do you check you know and with whom?

Look in your course work?

What if it is not there?

ACS only tests your knowledge, its not a training exercises to give you knowledge. And as somebody has said you may have done your ACS four years ago.

Who would ring Gas Safe and voluntarily say "Excuse me, can you remind me how to do a gas tightness test please?" The inspector would be on your case right away.

What about a safety electrical test after a boiler repair?

They are only some of the things you can forget in every detail.

So a support system would come in very handy indeed, even if it was just to bounce ideas off one another.

CORGI advised all Gas related companies to hold a full set of all the official documents relating to the work they do i.e. Gas Regs, British Standards, Water Regs, Building Regs and so on, plus their guidance documents.

In point at one time they sold the whole lot as an item. But the price was high and possibly only affordable for an established company. Have a look on the BS website to get some idea of the prices.

I was wondering do the self employed guys buy a similar product and what do they use to prompt their memories?

There was more than one reason why they advised you to get a pack though, and I will try and explain that in another mail.

 

[carpstu]

b s web site ????????????

 

[Bernie2]

BS: British Standards.

 

[prs1]

I still work full time as cant afford/or risk at present to chance s/emp but i feel its upto me to make sure i retain what info i need to do my job (gas).
The same as its upto me to make sure mis are available for any appliances i work on even if customer doesnt have a copy,
its also upto me to keep up with any changes in the industry,there has been the odd time things go a bit vauge but i have to get my head into the books again. I understand bernie that its just an example about tightness tests but its part of your job to have the info u need and GSR atleast expect BS and viper book to be at hand on the job!
Not having them is not acceptable imho and if it aint crystal after a quick read then imho they have forgotten to much to be able to do the professional job there being paid for,as an expert(being paid for their knowledge)theyneed to do whateverthey need to do to not get into this position.You see it all the time on the forum eg What would u charge for this? or How do i do that with no effort what so ever.
But yes bernie i agree with u that it would be good to have something in place for the pros to double check and seek other views on things!
I personnally will always try and help but if they want me to do all the work I Want PAYING! Learning is a two way street!

 

[Blackcatgas]

From working for large companys over the years I have made many friends in the plumbing and heating industry, they are all but a phone call away waiting to give me advice be it plumbing related, or how to entertain a lady. Gas safe help line is good too if I get really stuck.

 

[Puddle]

I have made many friends in the plumbing and heating industry, they are all but a phone call away

I to am in the same position !!!

They never seem to answer the phone to me though for some reason

These mobiles,so unreliable


I also hang around cafes and if any plumbers come in,try to sit on the next table to them and ear wig in on the latest plumbing and gas moves and grooves



It is surprising really how much information manages to get round and quite fast,use a lot of ref points on the net and exchange bits at merchants or when you bump into others out and about,trade mags also and of course

www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk

 

[CMairiD]

Get thee to your local library and see if they have a British Standards subscription. Some do and additionally, some libraries have a setup whereby by their members can access the Standards online and download them.

Viper have an mobile solution for their books, not as in depth as the print versions, but far more readable than the bone-dry Standards.

 

[Bernie2]

Yes must admit BS standards are bone dry.

The problem is, they may get turned against you, if you don't interpret them correctly, Viper books do not count I am afraid, they are for personal use only.
Admittedly they are helpful, but sit in front of an examining panel of Housing Association professionals which your company has big contracts with.

And you will find they will probably laugh their socks off at you, if you start quoting from any books other than the likes of Gas Regs and so on.

They usually know as much as you do about all the gas fitting regulations and perhaps even more, its their job to know.

They are not out doing gas work all day, they are studying legal positions and related matters. So you have to be 100% on the ball, especially in grey areas.

That is why its good if you have a support system you can call on to bounce things off.

What exactly are the calculations involved in flue pipe resistance, on that flue you closed down?

It wasn't spilling, and its horizontal length may have broke the recommended maximum distances. So how and where did you get your figures?

Lets check everything again.

That is just a small sample of what you can expect.

You'll probably have to search the whole internet to find the answers to that one.

 

[CMairiD]

Ah, well, I am that housing association.

Whilst tendering and maintaining a gas contract we'd certainly expect there to be adequate reference library available to the engineers, but we are also realistic enough to know that the average engineer isn't going to be running around with all applicable standards and regulations in his van.

He/she is far more likely to have a copy of Essential Gas Safety or the like, which references nicely back to the standards.

I will sit my ACS soon and Viper, NICEIC and the CORGI books are all acceptable reference materials to use during the exam.

 

[Bernie2]

Hi! CMairiD

But you will find they count for little, if it comes to a court case.

Building Regs and Gas Regs are laws which have to be obeyed.

Reference books do not.

Even British Standards are what they are, acceptable standards and do not supersede the likes of manufacturers instructions, but can be used in the absence of manufacturers instructions, providing they do not breech Regulations.

And following them can be your get out of jail card in a court case.

Try telling them you followed the instructions in a Viper book though?

In point the likes of Viper books and so on, usually have a reference stating which BS standard they are basing their information on. So if they are quoting the relevant standards, by-laws and Regulations themselves, which do you assume are more correct, the reference book or the regulation?

The Institute of Electrical Engineers are like the British Standards and so their stuff is probably acceptable.

As you know things like the Gas Regs are very dry indeed and you usually have to have some kind of guidance to know how to follow them. The recognised guidance is usually either manufacturers instructions or British Standards. In the case of the Building Regs a whole series of official guidance documents are published with them for free.

The likes of Viper information is only usually copied out of BS standards, plus perhaps with a bit more clarity. So by using them you are actually using BS standards. They usually tell you this anyway in the reference sections of reference books.

So reference books are only for helping people learn things, not the laws they are supposed to follow.

A lot is open to interpretation, in point you can install things anyway you like providing you don't break the Regs.
The thing is, you have to prove the way you have done something is right and safe and does not break the Regs at your own cost if things go wrong. That means you would have to hire the likes of recognised university people expert in the fields of gas engineering to back you up. That as you can imagine would probably cost a bomb.

By all means I would recommend learn out of a technical reference book, but I would not quote it in a dispute.

The easiest way to comply is usually to follow manufacturers guidance or British Standards.

Housing Associations want things bang to rights, unless they can get sued by their tenants and I suppose there are plenty of free solicitors prepared to do that.

So they tend to want work done in a way so that there is little argument about whether it is right or wrong and follows all regulations and that usually means following mfi or bs and being able to prove you have.

Its just seems to be the way things are now.

So quote a proper source and you should be okay.

Also consider in cases of dispute, what was allowable under former regulation and what was not, and ask yourself " If the things done under former regulation require updating or can you leave them as having been done under former regulation?"

And don't forget landlords do not like spending money so will probably check everything you say.

I am not trying to argue the point, just state what can happen in real world situations. I feel sure if you work for a housing association you will understand this point of view.