Grabbed By The Balls

[village idiot]

A landlord with 150 property's
I'd be thinking he has someone managing it not messing about like this himself

Just goes to show what Ray S said at the very beginning. Find the previous plumber and ask what went wrong. The fact he is this involved, signals problems. Besides, do i really want to put myself in a position where my regular customers will take second place?

 

[Ermintrude]

A landlord with 150 property's
I'd be thinking he has someone managing it not messing about like this himself

He might be the inlaw! We used to work for a family who own a fair proportion if the business parks and retail space and even an old train station or two, they own platforms the lot and lease back to nexus. It has an antiques fair on it (pure tat) he runs this too. He drives a vogue and an r8 when not in his t5 for work! Nice really but he's the inlaw and they have a lot of wonga. Just built a tesco on some land and now building 400 houses in co Durham .

 

[village idiot]

My main reason for wanting to take on the jobs was that I could take on the responsibility of ''training one or two kids from college as they are constantly asking for help in getting their foot in the door, seeing that the job will be steady. But considering how it is lookig as if he wants to watch every penny, I am tempted to walk away

 

[Gray0689]

Sure if you want the work take on a few jobs and see how it goes

 

[Worcester]

Sure if you want the work take on a few jobs and see how it goes

In fact approach him that way, on the basis of - we don't know each other lets work together for a couple of weeks and see how it works for both of us, if after that time either of isn't;t happy, let's review and give each other the opportunity to walk away with no bridges burnt.. He'll get to know your standard of work and amount of recalls, and you get to see if he's a penny pinching b**t**d or a fair an honest guy..

 

[armyash]

As someone mentioned earlier, I'd have a face to face meeting and iron out the details. You go with all your conditions written down and see what he has to say. Nothing annoys me more than being on a job and having to go off and get bits. I think it might be hard work but i'd have a go, if he can agree to enough of what you want to make it worthwhile.

If he is being that fussy over a couple of lengths of pipe then he isn't going to find it easy to find someone else to take on the work.

I admit I'd be tempted to get in with him if he does have that much work going.

Interested to see what happens but I could easily see village idiot passing it up if it will be too much stress. I swear some people think it's possible to do a boiler swap just by looking at the boiler on the wall in a certain way.

 

[WaterTight]

there's so much ill feeling towards big time landlords that there might be a niche in it.

Do you own "lots of properties?" Has the demanding, corner-cutting, money-driven mentality you worked so hard to cultivate made it difficult to keep a tradesman playing fetch for more than 5 minutes? We at Bend Me Over Plumbers know our place. Only fast track engineers, half the going day rate, no request refused, no bodge below us.

 

[oz-plumber]

Village Idiot,

I think you, with the help of others, have convinced yourself not to take on the work.

What the....is wrong with you and others!
Has there been a positive post about this thread...no...all negative.

From what i can gather, you don't have any confidence in yourself or your ability to undertake the tasks requested, then you advertise the fact in a public forum.

How about being positive, go see the bloke and nut out a deal that suits you both.

I don't see the situation very different from quoting a customer for a boiler changeover.
You are most probably quoting against other contractors, offering the same services at around the same price. Who wins - the Plumber whom the customer feels most comfortable with.

This situation is no different - just on a larger scale.

You thinks this bloke has got you by the balls, by what definition.
You haven't even sorted out a price yet - nor a contract.

If you agree to a deal, that you believe you have been had, then you are only to blame.

 

[Killy Bing]

Village Idiot,

I think you, with the help of others, have convinced yourself not to take on the work.

What the....is wrong with you and others!
Has there been a positive post about this thread...no...all negative.

From what i can gather, you don't have any confidence in yourself or your ability to undertake the tasks requested, then you advertise the fact in a public forum.

How about being positive, go see the bloke and nut out a deal that suits you both.

I don't see the situation very different from quoting a customer for a boiler changeover.
You are most probably quoting against other contractors, offering the same services at around the same price. Who wins - the Plumber whom the customer feels most comfortable with.

This situation is no different - just on a larger scale.

You thinks this bloke has got you by the balls, by what definition.
You haven't even sorted out a price yet - nor a contract.

If you agree to a deal, that you believe you have been had, then you are only to blame.

As said landlords that big don't appear from no where.
nor do they change engineers unless the engineer throws in the towel from the crap.

VI will quote then be told what he's going to get paid regardless, if he refuses he will lose the lot.

cousin has over 80 properties, he won't even offer me the work as he knows i won't play ball with him.
Nor put up with the crap his current guys takes.

15 quid a cert + boiler service.

he also farms the installs to anyone thats cheaper than his current guy.

carrot on the end of the stick, have to put up with bully tactics to get a sniff of it.

I hope your landlords are more agreeable in oz!
hope your government is also harder on em

 

[A1P]

Oz-plumber and Worcester put the case for exploring it further and as usual Ray makes a sensible comment.I would think it worth some of your time to see if it WORKS FOR YOU.The signs are not good,bordering on cheap rates and control of materials.He would need to understand boilers are not fitted on day rate.He needs to understand if you don't supply it he is on his own re-any future issues.
Clearly many have similar experiences to me,cheapest rates,want it done now etc.In some ways I find estate agents worse than landlords.They have their own agenda and want a mark up on everything.I have found they will use you when desperate but any further work is on their terms.Bigger jobs e.g boiler swaps go to the cheapest bid even if you have spent time diagnosing and trying to solve a problem for them.They often regard visiting and diagnosing a problem and quoting as a freebie-'You haven't actually done anything have you?'At least if you are dealing direct you can form sort of agreeable relationship or walk.What happened to the other guy who did his work would be worth knowing.

 

[Millsy 82]

I have worked for quite a few landlords over the years a few have been good most are not worth talking to.

150 properties is a lot of work and could be very lucrative but could also be a pain.

If it was me I would be going to see them at a quote and talking through what needs doing on a job. I would then also be discussing prices and timescales. I my self would be happy to do cp12 only for £42 for anyone with a large number of properties as that would be a good little money earner. But for a day rate I wouldn't drop below £200 and who is deciding how long a job takes as he might think a full heating system can be done in a day. So give him estimate of timescales (combi-combi swap horizontal flue no gas run and short condense run- 1day anything else is extra).

I would do it but you have to be firm with landlords if they think they can push you around they will! That's what he is doing at the moment testing what you will tolerate.

 

[Ermintrude]

No idea where my post went?

 

[buckley plumb]

I have a landlord and they have their own pts account - I have authority to order the parts on it . I just charge for my time when ordering etc . to be honest it can be a big plus as no worry about the outcost of parts .also on boiler breakdowns no fear of ordering parts you need or think you need

 

[pipefitter]

I've had regular work from a landlord for the last 10 years & it's been all good....I have access to all accounts if & when there is a problem he just wants it sorted & never ever queries my charges ,I do tend to put my self out a bit for him ,if there is a call out I do go there ASAP & I don't over charge him for this .i look after around 60 properties for him and at one point it was a bit full time but now the heating and plumbing is upto a better standard the call outs have virtually stopped & it's mostly just maintainance now which is all nice & simple ....... I would say have a chat with him & try & come to an agreement

 

[RoyalCrabs]

Do it your way or not at all if that is YOUR way of working, tell him to hire someone else..

You cant do a job properly if you cannot be confident in who you're working for right?

 

[village idiot]

Village Idiot,

I think you, with the help of others, have convinced yourself not to take on the work.

What the....is wrong with you and others!
Has there been a positive post about this thread...no...all negative.

From what i can gather, you don't have any confidence in yourself or your ability to undertake the tasks requested, then you advertise the fact in a public forum.

Well Oz plumbah, you are 100% correct. I mean, with a name like Village Idiot, how on earth do you expect me to know much? I come here and put it in a public forum because I need help doing things and building my confidence. What other reason will they be of me joining a forum if not to look for help?

Well, even though myself and the landlord had agreed 5 boiler installation jobs, The first a Combi swap was to be today, I have decided to follow my gut instincts and bail out of it. I had up to mid-day yesterday to make up my mind. People have their own way of doing work. I have mine. My standards remain mine, and I have no intention to deviate from them just to please anyone. Obviously, if I realise someone's else's way of doing ''work'' is better, then I will follow that.

As an example, for every boiler that I fit, I ensure that the flow and return pipes directly below the boiler are fitted with drain valves. Even for Baxi boilers whose flow and return unions have drain valves. I also fit a full bore lever valve to the cold feed to boiler. Are these requirements, NO, but it is my way of doing things and the drain valves assist me with my flushing the system.

So when a ''customer'' says I should give them a list of all my materials so they can deliver them, then querry why I need drain valves and lever valves etc when all I am doing is swapping over a combi for another? I can only take so much headache. If customer is paying top dollar, then ofcourse, I'm prepared to bend backwards to please them. But for someone who is penny pinching, I do not have the time and patience for these lot. I was recomended to him by another landlord who pays top dollar, which is why I have even given him this much allowance to see reason. My patience has ran out. I AM OUT

 

[Millsy 82]

Maybe the landlord has been done in the past which is why he is querying things. It could of been the bloke was doing the job for £120 a day then siphoning bits? I would of met him at a job and talked through what you do what you use and then take it from there. He of course could be a penny pincher and I find meeting people face to face helps spot that.

 

[village idiot]

Maybe the landlord has been done in the past which is why he is querying things. It could of been the bloke was doing the job for £120 a day then siphoning bits? I would of met him at a job and talked through what you do what you use and then take it from there. He of course could be a penny pincher and I find meeting people face to face helps spot that.

Some would say: how much is a couple of drain valves, lever valves etc? why not just throw them in and get the ''lucrative'' contract?
My theory is once you start letting them get away with it, they soon believe little bits should rightly come off your daily rate. I did meet him at the address where combi swap was to be done, and walked him through what I will be doing. But seems he constantly wants to querry things he has been asked to provide?

 

[woodsy]

The tone of your posts tells me that in the back of your mind the alarm bells are ringing. I sense only financial pain and grief from this landlord. I don't mind grief, it goes with the job to a degree but not at £120 per day.

 

[Millsy 82]

I've worked for a few like that some just want reassurance others are just a pain. I wouldn't use anything off my van for them unless their paying. I would say x amount will get you 3mtrs 22mm per job etc and add it to your rate anything over that is extra and chargeable.

I'm not saying you have made a bad choice you could of made the best decision of your life sometimes it's not worth the hassle. It's up to you what you take on or pass up that's the joy of working for yourself.

 

[village idiot]

I am all for trying to grow a business. But how much growth can you allow in a business before you loose control? Am I short of work, NO. So why give myself an headache when I could just take life at an easy pace? You only live once. I am convinced I made the right decision.

 

[wetdrip]

£250-£300 a day, to be paid at the end of every week.
Explain to him why you wish to incorporate, your addons:
drain valves and lever valves etc, as it's good sound engineering, and you're adamant you will not change your work code ethic.
As it's in his long term interest as these addons will save him money.

Posted too late.

 

[WaterTight]

so has he let go of your balls yet?

 

[Ermintrude]

Old apprentice called me at 5, some landlord offered him loads of fiddle work, he called me for advise, said yes go for it. She has lots of houses, I said and how did she get them? By not paying full wack or what a jobs worth! Get paid in full before you start or don't bother.

 

[village idiot]

so has he let go of your balls yet?

Mo have not heard from him yet, so I'm hoping he has decided to let go if my 'balls' -.
i did advice him to get quotes from other plumbers as it's highly unlikely I will be doing the jobs. But, at the back of my mind, I can just envisage him sending me an email on Monday or Tuesday saying: 'All materials you requested have been delivered to address, so can you please arrange a date for replacing boiler with tenant?' Now, that will really pizz me off. But as said, my mind is made up. I'm not going to do any job for him regardless.

 

[Sag]

So instead of even trying to sit down and negotiate, terms you walk away from thousands of pounds of regular work. Madness.

 

[Ermintrude]

And hours of stress and weeks waiting for money .

 

[Sag]

Not if a proper agreement could have been reached. Instead, tar the landlord with the same brush and turn away work.

 

[SafeGasInstall]

Tell him to kiss your bum

and walk away before is too late

 

[oz-plumber]

In reply to my post,

VI - I personally don't think you have given this Landlord and yourself enough time to negotiate.
He may well be a ***** - he may well think tradesman are not worth the money they charge.

But at the end of the day, you have made a decision on negativity and been made to feel that you are required to meet his demands / requests.

That may be well and true.

All it may have taken is for you to stand your ground and have a decent discussion on the phone or face to face.
Some things are worth having a go at.. and my point of view is that this was something worth having a go at.
You have made a decision not to have a go at it - fair call.
But I feel you have rolled over and given up without putting your point or services provided across.

Personally, I would have put my best foot forward and tried to negotiate a deal that would be beneficial to myself and offer whatever to make it happen.
I would not have worked at reduced rates, nor would I have cut corners to get the deal.

It may not have gone anywhere - but I don't think you put enough effort in to try and benefit yourself.

I don't have any harsh feelings towards you or your business dealings - that's your business.

Everyone has had bad dealings with landlords and estate agents, but not all estate agents and landlords are bad.

I just feel that you have let go of an opportunity that you haven't pursued fully.

No harsh feelings

Oz Plumber

 

[SafeGasInstall]

Dear OZ plumber ,

trust me , if you had worked here for at least a weak you would have realised what sort of people LL and Est agents are !!! Not waistimg my time of typing it , I am sure you have read lots about them

 

[Millsy 82]

Dear OZ plumber ,

trust me , if you had worked here for at least a weak you would have realised what sort of people LL and Est agents are !!! Not waistimg my time of typing it , I am sure you have read lots about them

There are a lot of rogue plumbers about does that mean you are one too? You are tarring all landlords with the same brush? You have to take people as they come. A lot are bad but there are some good ones about too.

 

[SafeGasInstall]

Sure I am one of them lol
yeah I agree

 

[MOSSEP]

As much as I like to agree with a fellow tradesman, I can see the issue from the Landlords point of view as well.

If I had a large portfolio of properties, I would know that I have a good thing to offer someone who is capable of doing the work. I would also want to be certain that I was getting this large amount of potential work done at the best price possible. Owning property is a business not a hobby and you do it to make money. I don’t suppose you shop at more expensive wholesalers unless you have a good history and relationship with them.

I would want to know that the stranger I am asking to do my work is not going to take the pish out of me, and if that meant that I wanted to buy the materials and only be charged for labour then so be it. I’m sure that after a few jobs you could have built up a good working relationship with potentially a large amount of work, and if it didn’t work out, you would not have lost anything either – other than maybe a few days where you may have earnt a bit more elsewhere.

 

[MOSSEP]

As said landlords that big don't appear from no where.
nor do they change engineers unless the engineer throws in the towel from the crap.

VI will quote then be told what he's going to get paid regardless, if he refuses he will lose the lot.

cousin has over 80 properties, he won't even offer me the work as he knows i won't play ball with him.
Nor put up with the crap his current guys takes.

15 quid a cert + boiler service.

he also farms the installs to anyone thats cheaper than his current guy.

carrot on the end of the stick, have to put up with bully tactics to get a sniff of it.

I hope your landlords are more agreeable in oz!
hope your government is also harder on em

Ive picked up work where the previous companies work was crap, where they became to expensive, where they were dishonest and also where they died! It hasn't got to be about the previous contractor throwing in the towel.