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Government free boiler schemes

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rayplumber

Gas Engineer
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I am hoping somebody on here has some information on how to get some work from the free boiler schemes not sub contracting but getting registered to do it freom start to finish ie eco & greendeal also anything else or is it not worth it would be good if we could all put the info we have on one thread cheers Ray
 
Need to be PAS 2030 etc etc

Looking into doing this myself, been mulling over the glow-worm club eco deal, its on their website, might be worth a look.

I too am confused about exactly what i need to do to be fitting boilers on these schemes, and not a little irritated that i have to pay out money to training provider so i can do my job
 
The process is consumer driven / and or marketing led by who makes the most money - i.e.
1) Mrs Bloggins boiler breaks down - who ya gonna call..
or
2) Got a flyer through the door today [DLMURL="http://www.energycaregroupltd.co.uk/freeboilerreplacement.html"]Energy Care Group Ltd[/DLMURL]
in the later they make money three ways
a) 'profit' on the install - they charge more than they pay the subbies
b) 'profit' on the equipment - they charge more than they buy it for
c) the process, they get paid for the EPC, GDA, and administering it, and another EPC

Being 'qualified' to install a green deal measure means you've been assessed to PAS2030 for that measure
the the process is really quite simple for the consumer (tongue firmly in cheek)

ConsumerJourneyThroughTheGreenDeal.jpg
 
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another nail in the coffin of the small installers all the profit from the jobs goes to someone else who knows how to work the system
 
Hold on a mo chaps.
If you are prepared to take on the business and financial risk, set up a local/regional/national organisation, including sales, marketing, back office, supply, storage, staff, PR, logistics, phones, internet, government compliance, funding for the business, etc etc (in other words a normal business venture), no one or nothing is stopping you from rolling out this operation in your own right. If you cant or don't want to do all of this, try and get in on the installer side (no you will not earn the lions share of the profit-if any - its a business and as always those at the top earn the most) and earn something on the back of it. But it really is no different from any other business, including yours but maybe on a different scale.
I am speaking of course of genuine on-the-level non rip-off ventures. Those fly by nights and rip off merchants I would never condone and sadly there are some out there.
 
I was offered the princely sum of £200 per boiler swap ,this based on other people's surveys.Ridiculous price and it is madness to be expected to do a swap in a day without having seen the job.The organiser was pocketing 2 or 3 times this without getting their hands dirty.
 
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The problem is, as the Installer, you are very much piggy in the middle. Your options are:

I) Act as a lowest cost subby to the bigger groups
2) Set up your own process to manage all of the above
3) find the middle ground - and that's where most self employed / small businesses would like to be - to have some control over the process and appear to offer to whole deal.That's where these other schemes are, the problem is most of them aren't really up and running yet.

I know of schemes that are being set up by:
Grafton Group (Plumbase)
Wolseley (PlumbCentre)
Kingfisher (B&Q)
Your GDP (designed for small businesses)

Glow-worm of course is owned by Vaillant, and neither are registered as a Green Deal Provider (GDP) - and the GDP's are the key to access the funding

The 'free boiler' schemes are based on ECO funding:

What is ECO funding?

The Energy Company Obligation (ECO) is a funding stream which was released at the beginning of October 2012. An annual £1.3 billion grant is available to enable landlords, private tenants and housing providers to upgrade their housing stock.

ECO funding is split into three different streams with:

60% going into the Carbon Emissions Reduction Obligation (CERO), targeting domestic hard to treat households in particular
15% going into the Carbon Saving Community Obligation (CSCO), targeting the lowest 15% income areas in England, Scotland and Wales
25% going into the Home Heating Cost Reduction Obligation (HHCRO), targeting the most vulnerable homes in the private sector
Click to expand...

Who's elgible for what - I'll post that up later ...

If anyone else knows schemes that are readily open to any installer led replacement opportunity, post them here please.
 
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Been offered the same deal in Bradford , £ 200 not just for a combi to combi swap which is a joke but any design of old system to swap over to a combi, the same money (and if you are vat registered take it out of the £200). Politely said not interested !!!
 
Have you been through manningham lately in bradford. Plastered with banners everywhere offering free boilers. It will be cold day in hell before i do a boiler install on eco. Whats the point of being self employed if your making money for someone else by subbing. I would rather go and work for BG or the AA
 
Been told that one particular co in Bradford has 8000 lined up already, surprise, surprise
 
Think thats a bit of a porky . How would they fund unless its a multi national. If its true they are welcome to them they wouldnt be one of my customers anyway and im doing nicely without eco.
 
So, from a government scheme point of view, and based on the fact that it's paid for by the energy co's out of their eco obligations, i.e paid for by you and me on my leccy and gas bills, they will shout from the treetops what a success The Green Deal has been.
 
It's all carp. Rhi green steal all paid for by u and I. We pay more energy bills , energy company pays Eco fund but makes huge profit, rhi green deal Eco are all overpriced so middle man makes nice packet, installer gets peanuts and a lovely high energy bill. I'm going off grid as soon as possible ! Micro generation and anaerobic digester!
 
Bg have been trying to squeeze the small man out of the game for a long time and this gives them that chance .
Said it all along why should i have to pay for pas2030 when i am gsr and if i am gsr then i would like to think i know how to survey/install/commission /sign off to a boiler
pas 2030 just a money making scam
you can shove the green deal where the sun dont shine
 
julesverne said:
Wouldnt be basi would it
Click to expand...
Yup correct. One of the estate agents I work for is ringing round all there tenants who are also claiming tax credits etc to encourage them to apply for new boilers - lost 3 boiler jobs to these because I couldn't t compete against giving landlords boilers for nowt!
 
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I'm told by a reliable source that they have 20 subbies doing a boiler a day - ie 100 per week
 
but 8000 cant see em having that many.leave em to it then doesn't affect me. 8000 at 100 a week eco will have finished by the time they could do all them.
 
julesverne said:
no chance they havent the man power to do it. even with subbies
Click to expand...


they will do it alright. Will just take them longer (most applicants are now being told they have to wait THREE weeks before their ''free'' boiler can be installed.

If most of the self employed had opted out of the program, then those seeking to exploit the self employed would have had to back out of it. Trouble is a good many self employed are helping these ''scammers'' to keep the scheme going?

I simply said NO to those who contacted me and told me I could fit as many boilers as I liked and payment will be made after THIRTY Days. Yeah, right. Why should I put their customers interest before my customers and why should I wait 30 days for payment?
 
OK here's part 2 - you are sitting down for the number of schemes done under ECO aren't you - think of all those luverly boilers.... 60,000 of them SO FAR


Green Deal installations are made up of two sorts of finance

1) Customer finance and
2) ECO funds

Almost 100% of the current 'Green Deal' projects are 100% ECO funded:


Who qualifies for a 100% ECO Funding?
In order to qualify 100% for Eco funding , you must be a home owner or private tenant (not Council/Housing Association).
Someone living in the property must also be in receipt of at least one of these six benefits (with a qualifying component where applicable):
•StatePension Credit (top up to State Pension)
•ChildTax Credit (household income under £15,850)
•IncomeSupport (with qualifyingcomponent 1)
•IncomeBased Jobseekers Allowance (with qualifying component 1)
•Income-RelatedEmployment Support Allowance (with qualifying component1 or 2)
•WorkingTax Credit (household income under £15,850 AND qualifying component 3)

Qualifying Component 1 (withrelevant main benefit above)
•Child under 16
•Childunder 20 in full-time education (but not university)
•Child TaxCredit including a disability element
•DisabledChild Premium
•DisabilityPremium
•PensionPremium

Qualifying Component 2(with relevant main benefit above)
•Work RelatedActivity or Support Component
Qualifying Component 3 (with relevant main benefit above)
•Childunder 16
•Childunder 20 in full-time education (but not university)
•SevereDisability Element
•DisabledWorker Element
•Aged60 or Over



What makes up ECO:

CERO
The Carbon Emissions Reduction Obligation (CERO) has funding available for all homes, but specifically for Hard-to-Treat properties (HTT) and those in need of solid wall insulation (SWI).
There are also a package of additional measures such as heating upgrades, glazing & draught proofing.
i.e the owner may have to contribute something..

CSCO:
The Carbon Saving Communitiy Obligation (CSCO) targets private and social housing in low-income areas for community, area-based schemes.
Insulation measures available include solid wall insulation, cavity wall insulation, loft insulation, district heating and glazing.
There are no need for qualifying benefits for properties in a CSCO area, funding is given regardless of tenure. 20% of funding can be given to areas adjoining the target Lower Super Output Areas.

CSCO Rural utilises 15% of the CSCO funding to those on benefits in rural areas, defined as populations of less than 10,000.
There are a large range of measures available, e.g. loft insulation, cavity wall insulation, solid wall insulation, replacement boilers and glazing.
A qualifying benefit or tax credit is needed to be eligible for CSCO Rural.
Energy Company Obligation data in a usable format | News | Centre for Sustainable Energy Energy Company Obligation data in a usable format

HHCRO:
The Home Heating Reduction Obligation (HHCRO) is measured on the reduction of notional bill savings (i.e heating) and is aimed at the most fuel-poor and those on qualifying benefits.
Any measure is allowed so long as it reduces the property's heating cost (incl. boiler repairs).
Qualifying benefits are the same as those for CSCO Rural.


The key thing about all this is that someone needs to process the applications, hence the following types of people in the chain:

Customer - Green Deal Assessor (GDA) - Green Deal Provider (GDP) - Consumer - Green Deal Provider (GDP) - Green Deal Installer (GDI) - Green Deal Provider (GDP) - Energy Supplier - Consumer - Energy Supplier - Green Deal Provider (GDP)

And as an installer you site in the middle, oh, and there are a lot of GDA's that work for Green Deal Assesment Organisations (GDAO)

So.... If you want access to ECO funds you need to get certified under PAS2030 and snuggle up to a friendly GDP...

Also if you want to carry out any work for ANY Green deal measure then you need to do the same.


The Gov't will now sing the success of the scheme:

GD Assessments – 85,177 were lodged up to the end of September, up from 71,210 at end of August. The 13,967 GD Assessments in September was seven per cent higher than the number in August (13,086), although there were slightly fewer Assessments in August than in June or July

Green Deal Plans – 954 Green Deal Plans had at least reached the ‘quote accepted’ stage for individual properties as at the end of September, compared to 677 at the end of August. Of these, 392 were ‘new’ quotes for GD Plans (quote accepted), 505 had moved to ‘pending’ (Plan signed) and 57 were ‘live’ (measures installed)

Cashback vouchers – by the end of September, 9,087 had been issued and, of these, 6,512 vouchers had been paid (following installation of measures) with a value of nearly £ 1.8 million (Chart 3). The majority of vouchers paid to date were in June and virtually all have been for boiler replacements

ECO measures - provisional figures, which are routinely subject to further checks by Ofgem, show there were 244,882 measures installed under ECO up to the end of August (measures data takes longer to report and there is therefore an additional lag of one month). The number of measures installed in August (49,964) was 11 per cent higher than the number of measures installed in July (44,923) and continues the growth in recent months. T he majority of all measures installed under ECO to date were for loft insulation (36 per cent of all ECO measures), cavity wall insulation (33 per cent) and boiler upgrades (25 per cent). All solid wall insulation types accounted for four per cent

ECO brokerage - £ 235 million worth of contracts had been let through ECO brokerage up to end of September compared to £205 million at the end of August

GD supply chain - 107 Green Deal Providers had been authorised up to the end of September. 286 GD Assessor Organisations and the 2,517 GD Advisors they employ had been accredited up to the end of September
 
Totally agree but what makes it laughable is that the boiler manufacturer (ideal) is obviously just turning a blind eye to the fact that they aren't, doing any kind of flush etc which when all we hear about is dirty system this and that causing boiler breakdowns, and benchmark schemes .
 
60,000 boilers installed thus far under this scheme @ lets say an install cost of £1750

£1750 x 60,000= £105 000 000

so thats 105 million pounds worth of unflushed ,wonkey crap installed ,,,,,money well spent?

you decide
 
Lets rewind a little, screwfix are doing a deal at moment, you pay £700 for the PAS2030, they pay you back, you buy the boiler (must be IQE boiler) they give you this back, with £700 for materials and labour. So you get £700, do the training, get it back, get 1 customer and get your £700 back and £700 extra, use this for next boiler and then you get £700 for boiler and £700 in your pocket. and then every boiler you do, you get £700, make sure it is a straight swap, like for like and you are getting a good days wage. would be good round here as lots of very old boilers and lots of ex council estates, problem is that most of them are back boilers, which take 3-4 days to change properly.
 
woodsy said:
Totally agree but what makes it laughable is that the boiler manufacturer (ideal) is obviously just turning a blind eye to the fact that they aren't, doing any kind of flush etc which when all we hear about is dirty system this and that causing boiler breakdowns, and benchmark schemes .
Click to expand...

But if customer is getting free boiler, surely they can pay for magnetic flush as an extra!!
 
jase158 said:
Lets rewind a little, screwfix are doing a deal at moment, you pay £700 for the PAS2030, they pay you back, you buy the boiler (must be IQE boiler) they give you this back, with £700 for materials and labour. So you get £700, do the training, get it back, get 1 customer and get your £700 back and £700 extra, use this for next boiler and then you get £700 for boiler and £700 in your pocket. and then every boiler you do, you get £700, make sure it is a straight swap, like for like and you are getting a good days wage. would be good round here as lots of very old boilers and lots of ex council estates, problem is that most of them are back boilers, which take 3-4 days to change properly.
Click to expand...


Its same as b AND Q offer presume they are in king fisher group as well , the b and q deal imho isnt worth the aggro
 
woodsy said:
Totally agree but what makes it laughable is that the boiler manufacturer (ideal) is obviously just turning a blind eye to the fact that they aren't, doing any kind of flush etc which when all we hear about is dirty system this and that causing boiler breakdowns, and benchmark schemes .
Click to expand...

It's going to go poo poo when they All go wrong and the scheme guarantor is up the creek without a paddle. I think that by end of next year going to be 5 ads a week on TV and in papers from solicitor s re; miss selling and Ropey assessments. Fines galore ..... But the installers gone bust, doh refer back to finance provider , plums, b&q , they are stuck for duration of finance. All this rubbish and all the paperwork just to make middle man some more money and the energy companies even more. No thanks .
 
Ermintrude said:
It's going to go poo poo when they All go wrong and the scheme guarantor is up the creek without a paddle. I think that by end of next year going to be 5 ads a week on TV and in papers from solicitor s re; miss selling and Ropey assessments. Fines galore ..... But the installers gone bust, doh refer back to finance provider , plums, b&q , they are stuck for duration of finance. All this rubbish and all the paperwork just to make middle man some more money and the energy companies even more. No thanks .
Click to expand...
yes it is same all through kingfisher, but its a great way to get your PAS2030 and then apply to other companies like ideal!!! I thought it is free to customer as long as they qualify
 
Part 3 is the ECO funding that goes direct to Housing Associations.. - Not got my info yet on how that mechanism is working ....
 
My mom was fitted a boiler in the last scheme by warm front. Boiler is only 4/5 yrs old, but its problems gallore. I have advised her to change the boiler but she says NO.
system was not flushed during installation. Filter fitted on Flow pipe. she says instead of changing the boiler, she will sue them?
 
Ermintrude said:
It's going to go poo poo when they All go wrong and the scheme guarantor is up the creek without a paddle. I think that by end of next year going to be 5 ads a week on TV and in papers from solicitor s re; miss selling and Ropey assessments. Fines galore ..... But the installers gone bust, doh refer back to finance provider , plums, b&q , they are stuck for duration of finance. All this rubbish and all the paperwork just to make middle man some more money and the energy companies even more. No thanks .
Click to expand...

but all that repair work idc is to be looked forward to by the likes of me:)
 
jase158 said:
But if customer is getting free boiler, surely they can pay for magnetic flush as an extra!!
Click to expand...
People getting handouts etc will not pay for anything as they haven't the money and aren't been told anyway .
 
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