gas safe sham or con

[sye]

is it just me or is everyone else getting sick and tired of being baby sat by these regulators first corgi who to be fair were not to bad but now gas safe which is just a money making scheme after all what have we paid for and god forbid you have a year out it doubles and for what ......to go on probation for 3 months every year has no one actually sat down and thought if we keep increasing the presure on what engineers we have that are registered the number is going to increase year on year with those who wont, after all just because they are not registered doesnt mean they are not qualified or know what they are doing the way gas safe is being run is just making life so difficult and expensive that the numbers who refuse to register are increasing thus the threat level will also rise as they dont get the advice and updates that a registered engineer is offered. and why dosnt all other trades have to have the same grief we have after all a kitchen fitter can hang his wall unit over a vent , a carpet fitter will carpet over a vent in the floor it goes on and on and im sure most of you will agree driving a car is far more dangerous than fitting a boiler this is red tape gone mad you pay to re-qualify every 5 years so why does gas safe have to check you again year on year are they admitting that our quaifications for our gas are a waste of time and money or do they just want to make more money and for what a magazine that is only filling our recycle a web site that 90% of the public dont even use or no about and a little id card that no one ever asks for surely it would make more sense to lower the cost if not abolish it all together to incourge others to join and be monitored and if we are to be monitored year on year again aboish our 5 year quaification and let it run ...............

 

[moony]

i think its a good system to be fair - i dont see a problem with registering and then again in five years doing a refresher - things change and this is a good way to make sure its kept on top of.

 

[stevetheplumber]

personally ive found gas safe to be an improvment on corgi

 

[wards]

agree with q-plumb,it is all too easy to get complacent in what we do,the updates in the mags are also informative although i have to say they do push a lot of advertising aswell,overall it keeps us aware of regulation updates/changes and upskilling every five years is a must in my opinion.

 

[fuzzy]

i think gas safe are pretty good. i dont like the way they have dropped the student membership though

 

[Dannypipe]

I think it costs too much, but on the whole, I'm pleased with them.

 

[Puddle]

As said, I to think Gas safe are doing a good job especially when put against the old over commercialised Corgi setup

If you are taking a year out and being treated like a new comer maybe this could be looked at

Gas safe do not inspect everyone every year and concentrate their efforts on the new members and newly qualified and any complaints or when issues raised, which again I think is a good policy

As for charges, the annual charge is down in real terms and to me acceptable, the 5 year refresher is not over the top charge wise and again with the competition at the moment in real terms again coming down but I would like it to be more in depth
If you divide costs over a 5 year period , this is/should very reclaimable in the gainful employment of the gas industry

The id cards should be used by yourself and show the customer to make them aware of Gas Safe, as it is in your interests to do so ,do not wait to be asked, I make a point of showing my Id at the door and when presenting invoice if on job, showing areas of work are covered

You may have a point other trades should take a basic course or have basic gas items on their training course, like the need not to block vents, remove when fitting windows ect, this as said should be added and not a reason for our system to be watered down

As for the gas safe mag ,it could be improved and in fact is improving ,however there are some useful items in it and you cannot have your cake and eat it, the corgi mag my have had more in it but that was down to commercialism so a lot was not factual just the manufacturers slant, gas safe is not so commercial so you get a straighter, less glossy editorial...did notice not a lot of letters this month
though


imho

 

[Dotty]

As for the gas safe mag ,it could be improved and in fact is improving ,however there are some useful items in it and you cannot have your cake and eat it, the corgi mag my have had more in it but that was down to commercialism so a lot was not factual just the manufacturers slant, gas safe is not so commercial so you get a straighter, less glossy editorial...did notice not a lot of letters this month
though


imho

Talking of which aren't you due to give us this months breakdown Pudsy?

 

[GPSNewcastle]

I dont see the problem here. I think it is necessary to ensure that everyone is up to speed on the regs and promoting good practice because at the end of the day we work in an industry that involves dangerous substances (gas and products of combustion) and therefore it should be regulated. Re-assessments every 5yrs is fine by me, we all know there are lads out there who get the license then disregard the standards completely...my main problem with Gas Safe is their leniency when unsafe practices are reported, I personally know of a local engineer who installed a gas fire on a hose, used undersized pipe for the boiler installation (22mm from meter to under floor, 15mm for the underfloor run, then increased to 22mm just before it came above the floor (which I am assuming was to save money and deceive the customer)), left an open ended gas line in the kitchen and had the flue coming out about 2 inches from an open window...gas safe slapped him on the wrists and asked him to rectify the problems! That isnt good enough

 

[moony]

I dont see the problem here. I think it is necessary to ensure that everyone is up to speed on the regs and promoting good practice because at the end of the day we work in an industry that involves dangerous substances (gas and products of combustion) and therefore it should be regulated. Re-assessments every 5yrs is fine by me, we all know there are lads out there who get the license then disregard the standards completely...my main problem with Gas Safe is their leniency when unsafe practices are reported, I personally know of a local engineer who installed a gas fire on a hose, used undersized pipe for the boiler installation (22mm from meter to under floor, 15mm for the underfloor run, then increased to 22mm just before it came above the floor (which I am assuming was to save money and deceive the customer)), left an open ended gas line in the kitchen and had the flue coming out about 2 inches from an open window...gas safe slapped him on the wrists and asked him to rectify the problems! That isnt good enough

totally agree matey - there should a disciplinary procedure in place imo.

too often unscrupulous engineers are allowed to go put there own work right - sends out wrong message - 3 strikes your out i think and that would be generous to some - especially the example you mentioned above.

 

[boilerman]

Although I find sitting the assessments a little uncomfortable and unnerving,(being an old sod like I am)I think its a must that some sort of competance check should be in place.The costs are not an issue(except that they all come at once) you just pass them on.
I,ve found Gas safe much more approachable than the condescending Corgi lot

 

[fuzzy]

there is talk of allowing larger companies to text theirselves and then register with gas safe!!

 

[julesverne]

i became gas safe registered at the beginning after 3 1/2 years of hard slog (made all the more by being self employedand having to do a lot work experience for free). Imo you have to have a trade body such as gas safe to sort the wheat from the chaff. i'm proud to say i'm gas safe registered it's recognition for my hard work. although i do think there should be a better system for dealing bad work instead of a slapped wrist.
I have my probation visit 2nd november. they want to see 3 sites where i have done work.

could anybody enlightened me as to what i can expect from the gas safe inspector?

 

[fuzzy]

i dont mind people being given a slap on the wrists for minor points, if they continued then yes it should be sorted

 

[Bernie2]

Hmm!

I agree with the set up, but the price?

Its not only bad for the engineer its also bad for the customer and lets be fair, registration is no guarantee of good work.

When you think about it, the old system of making gas regs worked as well. If you broke them it was your fault, problem is not many people working on gas knew what the regs where.

But then how many people know any civil law if they are not a lawyer? And even if they do know about the laws can they understand them?

I must admit, I am all for gas education, but not charging the ridiculous prices like they do for information about what are basically Health and Safety matters.

Its not right to make money out of peoples safety and risk those ignorant of the law from taking silly risks they have no idea they are taking, simply because they can't afford the proper information.

All in depth and detailed safety information should be free and easily available. If we tell people the risks involved there may not be so many cowboys, but while we use the information like a cash cow, then what can we expect other than DIYers, cowboys and chancers to run risks they do not know they are taking.

As to updating information that should be a case of all appliance manufacturers posting their current boiler range with full technology information on a centralised website. Which I may add many already do.

The industry could be a good one if it wasn't so bent on making so much cash from information, after all info is probably the main part of gas fitting. Its easy enough to screw panels off boilers, its knowing what the parts do that is the hard bit and if they are going wrong. And that perhaps requires information more than physical skill.

 

[Reg Man]

I agree with most of what has been said. Its good to have a refresher; after all this is about safety. As for gas safe register (GSR), most people are saying they are doing a good job; may be its because they are not doing much of a job and are leaving most of us alone. I have had customers who have reported installers who are not registered and the response time for GSR responding was 4 weeks; thats no good when the customer has no heating and hot water. Therfore we go in to rectify the job destroying all that valuable evidence which needs to be fed back to the HSE and GSR dont even bother to follow up. The old CORGI system was not perfect, but their response time was much better, their Technical line was better, their magazine was much better. Another thing is, GSR are run by Capita a stock market PLC business with share holders that require return from ther investment. CORGI was run by the CORGI trust who invested any profit back into promotion of gas safety (No share holders). I therfore are one of the few that have been suckered into believing GSR is an improvement. I think the whole registration scheme has been wound down to run on the cheap. Its a pitty the registration fees don't reflect this.

 

[fuzzy]

large companies will be able to examine their own staff, cannot see anyone getting a license to do this aaprt from BG

 

[stevetheplumber]

i do sometimes think that gas safe is an unneseccary layer weve proved competence via acs and were ultimately responsible to the health and saftey exec who do the prosicuting

 

[fuzzy]

Think your right steve, unfortunatly the industry is so unsafe they need some type of policing authority.

 

[Reg Man]

How about HSE doing the enforcement as they already do and insurance companies dealing with the levels of competance. IE: you can only get public liability and imdemnity insurance if you have the relevant qualifications for the work you carry out. Therfore none qualified people can't get insured, and customer beware. Probably a rubbish idea, but thought I would throw it in.

 

[oldplumber]

How about HSE doing the enforcement as they already do and insurance companies dealing with the levels of competance. IE: you can only get public liability and imdemnity insurance if you have the relevant qualifications for the work you carry out. Therfore none qualified people can't get insured, and customer beware. Probably a rubbish idea, but thought I would throw it in.[/QUOTE

If you riddor something its the trading standards/hse that have to respond and investigate the problem already and currently without a gas safe ticket you cannt get insurance for gas work now. in an imperfect world what we have is reasonable its just a matter of getting a few more prosecutions to put people off chancing their arms in the first place.

 

[REDSAW]

How about HSE doing the enforcement as they already do and insurance companies dealing with the levels of competance. IE: you can only get public liability and imdemnity insurance if you have the relevant qualifications for the work you carry out. Therfore none qualified people can't get insured, and customer beware. Probably a rubbish idea, but thought I would throw it in.

then they wont be insured either?.

 

[Puddle]

its just a matter of getting a few more prosecutions to put people off chancing their arms in the first place.

prosecutions with a lot bigger fines and punishments !!

 

[oldplumber]

public floggings and remove the hand that does the work, taking things too far?????????? come the revolution etc etc

 

[Reg Man]

Tee Hee thought that would get you all going. Gas Safe here to stay just same as CORGI though. Only difference is new fleece and different sheppard.

 

[tamz]

I don't really care who runs it but it the system needs shaking up and some serious action taken on the unregistered and the people who use them. There is no excuse as everyone is aware that to work on gas, you need to be registered. Even if they are not quite sure who with. Mr or Mrs average however want the work done for the lowest price and if they pay a painter £100 for a days work when his only outlay is a couple of brushes and a dustsheet, why should it cost more for a gas man!
I'd like more work to be audited, not because i never make mistakes but because i would like to learn from them.
I'd make the ACS a lot harder with proper written exams where you had to learn and understand. If you can't pass them you don't work.
I'd ban all the fast track gas course places as only a very few who go through them could ever be "competent" in the few weeks. (i've had first hand experience of some of these idiots).
I'd also like all the standards to be freely available to those in the trade. I have had to spend 1000's of pounds on the ones i need to be able to know the standard to work to. If we need to work to a standard at least let us read it and know what we need to do.(this is especially important for people starting out who don't have 1000's to spend on 40 page books).
As it is i don't mind trotting out for a weekend every 5 years and handing over some cash (and subsidising the halfwits with the fees) for some ABC's i could get my dog trained up to pass and he can't read.
The current system is all about pass the buck. You are "allegedly" qualified as you hold the qualifications so when it goes t its up the buck stops with you. But what ever happens? .........................

I just rubbed that last lot out as i was going a bit ott

The truth is it is all a big compromise and we are all being played.

 

[Reg Man]

Yer... we are proffesional people, and to maintain that, we all have to keep up to date and enroll to proffesional bodies. Alot of those out there can do nothing but moan and groan about the cost and inconvience and still charge top notch rate for the work. Biggest problem is. who do I enroll with? Obviously Gas Safe Register to do gas work legally. But there are lots of others on none mandatory. This industry is in confusion. Lets have a one stop organisation who cover all of our aspects of work (Gas, Plumbing, Electrical). oop's govement trashed that one when they dumped CORGI. bum for the ACS for gas; why are ther so many elements? your either a gas engineer or not. Break it down to, domestic, LPG and Industrial commercial. All this I can work on boilers but not fires confuse's the customer. Must stop now.

 

[tamz]

Totally agree. You can get your basic 5 ACS for around £500 every 5 years. 27 pence a day. I just counted it. Add in you registration fees, another 48 pence a day.
How much did that coffee you bought today cost and did you gripe about that (mine cost £1.25 and the lady whos boiler i was changing is spending a cold night without heat or hot water because she couldn't find the kettle, easy shift tomorrow for me)

The breakdown of the elements is another sore point. For example. Why is CP1 being done as a separate element when it is being linked it to CEN1 which will be void if you don't have it. Why not incorporate it?

The industry needs a shake from the roots up and i don't believe Capita are the ones to do it. Redifining and transforming services to the public.......aye right!

 

[fuzzy]

the government wanted CAPITA because they said they'd tighten things up and run it better than corgi, the jury is still out eh?

 

[Reg Man]

I've had privilage to read about the Capita and Corgi bid. Its all aload of bull. What have Capita done? Don't believe the spin, its all politics. All Capita (Gas Safe Register) offer is not alot. They have dumped just about every thing other than having a paper work register and lots of spin over promotional activities. They do inspect notified work and do investigate people who are not registered. What about those that do not notify anything? They are probably the one's who have more to hide because they are not conforming.

 

[REDSAW]

What about those that do not notify anything? They are probably the one's who have more to hide because they are not conforming.

i for one knows someone who has not notified in the last 2 years...

 

[Reg Man]

At least they won't get inspected. Only draw back is the customer won't get ther Part L or what ever certificate. This might bite them on the bum, if the customer sells there property.

 

[Unregistered]

Re: gas safe sham or conu

Gas safe would be better as a stand alone organisation not part of the Capita group which means it's make a profit, Capita is the same sham company which runs TV licensing so that says it all.
make an independent body with no parent company or associated company, don't know how many of you notice when you search a local engineer British Gas appears on every page, it's not a fair system it promotes big business and partner companies first then you find yourself way down the list.
There should also be a viable alternative we could collaborate and it up together maybe call it UK Gas or something along those lines.

 

[Rickster123]

Please register and start a new thread. Thanks.