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Discuss Foul smell downstairs when we flush upstairs in the Bathrooms, Showers and Wetrooms area at UKPlumbersForums.co.uk.

  1. nisnooz

    nisnooz New Member

    Hello all, it's that time of the year again when plumbers can't seem to figure out the issue they were called in to check so I have to rely on the skills and experience of you lot!

    First floor flat + loft conversion where a Saniflo was installed. The Saniflo piping goes from back right corner of room all the way around, coming out on the front left side into the pipe

    There used to be a foul smell appearing without any activity on the first floor but it was occasional and it would be contained to the toilet area roughly speaking

    About 6 weeks ago, the Saniflo upstairs was used for a #2 causing a flood of bad smell downstairs which wouldn't go away for about 2 hours. We stopped #2 upstairs yet since that time, simply flushing the Saniflo (i.e. no #1 or #2) floods the 1st floor (all rooms give or take) in a smell of poo.

    The Saniflo engineer does not think it's his remit because the smell is not around the unit itself, or even on the same floor. He did recommend descaling the macerator every 3 months though.
    The plumbers (3 so far) can't figure it out and recommend a (expensive) process of elimination:
    -Adding trap to the washing machine: yet the smell appears when the Saniflo upstairs is flushed and is a relatively recent phenomenon, AND the washing maching is not even connected to the same waste pipe that the plumbers are suspecting of being the problem
    -Changing the piping connections to include a vent 1m over the converted room (check the last photo, one plumber asked for £1,200 to remove that cap and do the piping properly)

    Any solutions you propose? I can't logically understand how we flush upstairs and downstairs gets the bad smell..

    Thanks
    Nisnooz 20170104_113436.jpg 20170104_113443.jpg 20170104_113457_HDR.jpg 20170104_113529.jpg
     
  2. rpm

    rpm Trusted Plumber Top Contributor!!

    Is the Sanipro close coupled to the toilet pan spigot or is there a length of pipe between the two? If so how long is the pipe?
     
  3. rpm

    rpm Trusted Plumber Top Contributor!!

    Just realised the smell is on the floor below not the floor when the sani is so it has to be with the piping.
     
  4. nisnooz

    nisnooz New Member

    Right... only which piping? did any of the pictures offer insight?
     
  5. rpm

    rpm Trusted Plumber Top Contributor!!

    Picture 2, the White pipe painted Black going to the hopper, what /where is that from?

    Picture 3 being from the sani?
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2017
  6. nisnooz

    nisnooz New Member

    Picture 2, the White pipe painted Black going to the hopper is the washing machine pipe
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2017
  7. rpm

    rpm Trusted Plumber Top Contributor!!

    Sorry I edited and asked another Q.
     
  8. townfanjon

    townfanjon Trusted Plumber GSR Top Contributor!!

    Picture 4 , it looks like an air admittance valve, I cant realy tell by the pic , has it always been there ?
     
  9. nisnooz

    nisnooz New Member

    absoluetly, pic 3 with the grey pipe coming into the capped waste pipe is from the Saniflo
     
  10. rpm

    rpm Trusted Plumber Top Contributor!!

    If it is and the White pipe is from the sani, could a faulty valve cause the issue?

    (slight overlap with OP)
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2017
  11. nisnooz

    nisnooz New Member

    yes, it has been. this air admittance valve has been deemed the black sheep of the situation by the plumbers who came over but it's been there for 3 years... of course, not to say it couldn't have gone faulty... that's why I'm asking for your help on this forum
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2017
  12. townfanjon

    townfanjon Trusted Plumber GSR Top Contributor!!

    The idea for the valve is to let air in but keep the smell in the pipe . They are designed for inside ( unless sombody knows different ) roof spaces etc etc .
    Take it off , I bet it sorts it
     
  13. rpm

    rpm Trusted Plumber Top Contributor!!

    Was thinking inside use but didn`t have the confidence in saying so.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. nisnooz

    nisnooz New Member

    take it off as in keep the waste pipe completely exposed at the top?

    also, I just realised, all 3 plumbers told me this was not an air cap and I received £ quotes to "Install the air valve ot the top of the waist pipe outside" - does this mean they don't consider this an air admittance valve?
     
  15. townfanjon

    townfanjon Trusted Plumber GSR Top Contributor!!

    Like I said , somebody may no different, but AAV's go inside or they do in Yorkshire lol .
     
  16. nisnooz

    nisnooz New Member

    just confirming 2 things here:
    1. I remove it and leave the waste pipe capless
    2. the "air valve" that plumbers want to charge me for is the same as the existing AAV?

    ta!
     
  17. rpm

    rpm Trusted Plumber Top Contributor!!

    The bit that concerns me is the balcony above but I don`t know the regs on soil stacks, most outside ones exit at roof level above the highest window. Some have wire bushes on top to stop debris falling in.

    Sorry but that`s about as far as I go with this.
     
  18. townfanjon

    townfanjon Trusted Plumber GSR Top Contributor!!

    Just buy a cheapo leaf guard for the top .
     
  19. nisnooz

    nisnooz New Member

    yes, that balcony is in use so is the room that gives onto it so in theory, the waste stack should be higher than the conversion, that's why a plumber asked for £1200 this morning to extend the piping above the loft conversion.

    can I get an explicit answer pls as to whether the air valve replacement proposed by plumbers is the same as the current AAV?
     
  20. townfanjon

    townfanjon Trusted Plumber GSR Top Contributor!!

    Just looked at pic 3 , and seen the balcony , thats why the AAV is on the top . Unless they make them for outside ( which I doubt , the diaphragm freezes inside ) you may have to sort the whole soil pipe. I maybe wrong I dont do anything with this sort off stuff anymore . Just have a look on a website ( McAlpine ) and see if they are available for outside .
     
  21. rpm

    rpm Trusted Plumber Top Contributor!!

    Guess you have to ask them, but with a balcony it can`t vent there. (Using logic now not knowledge).
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2017
  22. nisnooz

    nisnooz New Member

    Last edited: Jan 4, 2017
  23. nisnooz

    nisnooz New Member

    right, look at this:
    Q7. Where can the Studor AAVs be installed?

    The Studor Mini-Vent can be installed above the fixture and up to 1000mm below the “flood level” of the fixture. It can be installed under the sink, in roof space between floors, in wall spaces, etc. – as long as the valve is installed 100mm above the horizontal waste to the fixture that it serves. There must be free movement of air to the valve. The Studor Maxi-Vent can be installed at the top of the stack in the loft, eliminating the need to penetrate the roof. The Studor Maxi-Vent must be installed 150mm above the highest branch connection.

    how does this match up to my pipe work as seen in the photos?
     
  24. rpm

    rpm Trusted Plumber Top Contributor!!

    Looks like either can be used but it needs to fit under that guttering.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  25. nisnooz

    nisnooz New Member

    yes, when I read further "It may also be installed outside the building when used in conjunction with the aluminium cover and polystyrene cap. Subject to being used with the insulating cap, Studor guarantees the performance of the Maxi-Vent from -40°C to +60°C, which far exceeds the requirement of EN12380 for the AI rating (which is “only” from -20°C)."

    This might well be the solution to this issue!!!
    Hurrayyy!!!

    Cheers gents!
     
  26. nisnooz

    nisnooz New Member

    Right, I need to re-launch this as I'm struggling to buy the maxi -vent so while I sort this:

    Saniflo and downstairs toilet share the same waste pipe (as per photos attached) so if the current AAV is faulty, shouldn't using either toilet cause foul smell to come back in the flat?
     
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