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Discuss Firebird 90 - hot water pump runs continuous in the Oil and Solid Fuel Forum area at UKPlumbersForums.co.uk.

  1. wolbut

    wolbut New Member

    Had a problem with the water pressure in the system rising over 3 bar and blowing the safety - fitted a new heat exchanger and fixed that -- then i had no heating but had hot water - found that the hot water pump was running continuously -- checked the flow switch and that was working correctly - realised that hot water demand over rides heating - found that the relay that switches for the hot water pump to run is fed by the flow switch and also the "relay tank thermostat" --- by disconnecting the wire from the stat de-energises the relay coil (flow switch still in circuit) and the hot water pump stops and the central heating will operate (CH pump runs OK) -- any advice on where the problem lies ? - it appears to be the relay tank stat unless that is being fed by another faulty part/stat ---- prior to the heat exchanger failure all appeared ok - hot water on demand and CH as required -- could the over pressure caused a component failure or would it be just coincidence (the multi pin relay works ok and a substitute operated the same)
     
  2. wolbut

    wolbut New Member

    quick up date - by removing the wire from terminal 1 on the relay tank stat i get the system to operate "correctly" -- that is the CH works in response to the room stat / timer -- and i get hot water on demand -- both pumps operate only when they should ---- the relay tank stat has a permanent live feed to terminals C an 1 --- (term 1 has the wire that i disconnected) --- if term 1 should not have a permanent live then it must be faulty -- anyone know if this is so ? -- dont want to chase a fault just by fitting expensive new parts -- thanks
     
  3. SimonG

    SimonG Trusted Plumber

    You already have. Original fault is not the heat exchanger. But you'll find that out once it's running properly.
     
  4. wolbut

    wolbut New Member

    OK-so what would be the original fault?
     
  5. wolbut

    wolbut New Member

    so a bit more clarification -- the pressure gauge reads the CH circuit system pressure - with the boiler switched off i filled the system to 1 bar and disconnect filling loop - with boiler still off the gauge pressure then slowly built up to 3 bar until the safety blew - the only way the pressure could build up is from the incoming mains water which only feeds the heat exchanger and then the hot water pipework - as i understand it the mains water pressure can only increase the system pressure via an internal fault / leak inside the heat exchanger - changing the heat X stopped the abnormal increase of pressure in the system - now i can get both hot water and CH the system pressure does not increase above its normal running pressure of 2 to 2 1/2 bar

    still need to find the fault
     
  6. Macca

    Macca New Member

    Me too.. Boiler runs ok,
    Firebird Combi 90.
    Pressure is fine, heating when required, piping hot water as required too.
    DHW Pump just runs on?
    I can hear this trickling noise through the pipe work in the dead of the night not long after a burn to replenish the heat store, i then go to the boiler and the white light on the pump is on? The pipework is hot both sides of said pump.
    I have recently had this new pump fitted but plumber has no idea why this is running, and of course it doesn't do it on his arrival!
    A switch off at mains for 5 mins stops this until the next burn
    I have heard a relay type click when it starts but it will run until i switch it off?
     
  7. lame plumber

    lame plumber Guest

    get an oil technician in to sort it out, dont waste money on parts like the previous lad
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Gazzt

    Gazzt Active Member

    You can download manual from firebird website for free. Is it a condensing combi or standard efficiency combi. The manual contains wiring diagram. To help your oil tech
     
    • Like Like x 1
    Last edited: May 1, 2017
  9. Macca

    Macca New Member

    Thanks, my Plumber is an oil tech but is lost to any solution to this, boiler is 10 years + as was in when i moved in so his advice is get a new one seems a bit of overkill as it runs fine but for this pump running.
    I was just looking to see if there is an answer to this problem on here?
    Thanks anyway i will keep an eye on this thread for any future responses.
     
  10. Gazzt

    Gazzt Active Member

    A failed pressure vessel can cause pressure to rise to 3bar and blow off at the safety valve ,also a total loss of pre charge pressure can cause this.
    The pump my be running on longer to satisfy the drop in temperature in the heat store. Get a boiler man in and phone firebird technical for advice.
     
  11. lame plumber

    lame plumber Guest

    get another technician, the better ones know how to fault find or where to get the answers, forums arent the answer if you have issues and your not a technician as it leads to all sorts of problems in my mind
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Gazzt

    Gazzt Active Member

    Domestic Hot Water Operation
    Hot water is available on demand by turning on a hot tap. This activates the flow switch which powers the domestic hot water pump ensuring that all boiler hot water is diverted to the domestic heat exchanger which heats the incoming mains water to give instant mains pressure hot water. Hot water is then mixed with mains cold water by a thermostatic mixing valve set to ensure that it does not exceed 65°C. This is shown in accompanying diagrams - Item No. 6.
    The burner may continue to run after hot water draw off has ceased - to ensure the pre-set temperature is restored in the heat store. This may also occur at any time if the control system senses that there is a need to replenish the heat store, i.e. if there has been natural temperature drop in heat store during long periods of low demand for domestic hot water.
    This is from firebird combi manual if it helps
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Macca

    Macca New Member

    Thanks for the response guy's
    I already have a manual, my tech aquired it a while back to fault find a previous fault. Attached is a pic. My Combi is the one on the front cover, without the old control panel, mine is a separate lifestyle control panel.

    (condensing combi or standard efficiency combi) ??
    Standard i think.
    Sorry i will have to ask the Tech!

    He has followed said manual and all wiring diagrams are correct..
    However, he has never seen any diagram as to the sequence of the stat phials and to which stat pocket they need to be positioned in?
    There are 5 in all, i have 3 in the boiler and 2 in the tank.
    His theory is,
    *it could be the overheat stat calling for the DWH pump to circulate heat away from the boiler, as this is the only other stat that can control the DHW pump.
    The phial for the overheat stat is positioned in the DHW tank stat pocket?

    Nowhere in the manual states the position of these phials?
    This is his next trail of elimination along with calling firebird..

    1493730459997-855533739.jpg
     
  14. Macca

    Macca New Member

    Attached are 2 item he has seen which relate to the position of the phials only these are the enviromax model..

    Screenshot_2017-05-02-13-58-03.png

    Screenshot_2017-05-02-13-53-23.png
     
  15. Gazzt

    Gazzt Active Member

    I think your tech could be correct its very possible the overrun stat is the problem. You should phone firebird technical for further info.
     
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