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stephenfranks

I know that fast track courses are an emotive subject, but do you think they would be good for somebody wishing to specialise in only cast iron range cooker installations and servicing?

I am in a quandary as I would like to train to install Agas & Rayburns (Gas Oil & Solid Fuel) but cannot do so without becoming Gas Safe/Oftec & Hetas qualified. I have no wish really to work on domestic boilers and heating, simply the gas/oil hook up of cast iron ranges, minor gas pipe alterations and gas/oil flues, repairs and commissioning.

The cost of fast track courses is very high (but I would definitely do one if it got me started), and I have a family and mortgage so cannot afford NVQ/Apprenticeship route.

Can anyone offer advice on the best course of action?
 
blimey, the trining will take in lots more than you wish o do, i cannot think is anything specific you could do to reduce your training time, maybe somebody has an idea?

the training and assessment for gas alone will be a lot if no previous experience or quals
 
Well I suppose that it would be a good skill to have, so perhaps worth doing a gas course...
 
do you know what is required? you need on site experience as well as the course, not as easy as some think to get the assessments done
 
I was considering doing OFTEC & Gas Safe at Gastec, then going to Aga for build courses. Gastec seem to offer portfolio building?
 
oh ok, how much do they charge for this? cannot see it being cheap

do you have any previous experience?
 
I am a builder, so have picked up alot. Fees are in the order of ÂŁ5k
 
well youll have many of the skills needed, over to you really, do you want to pay the 5k?
 
Not really, as It is ÂŁ5k for Gas Safe then ÂŁ1700 for OFTEC (You really need both as Agas come gas and oil). Not as easy business to get into!!
 
Have you spoken to you local training center, they might point you the right direction, in that you would only need pipe work and cookers or space heaters!! what are aga's?? I fast tracked my to my acs with a two week course to cover all, pipe work, cookers, boilers etc,could you not ask if you could tailor the course a bit, ie turn up for the first couple of days that should cover pipe work etc, then come back next week to do the applience part?? might be worth an ask, becuase you can pick and choose what cores you complete for your acs. Best of luck with it all though.
 
also as a thought!! could you start with oil, most aga's round my way are oil, build up and move on from that!! try and tie up with a local gas chap who dosen't like dirty aga's but is happy to assist you with the gas side while you do the dirty bit!! works for me! I mostly only install new, gas mostly, and work with service engineer who fixes them! just a thought!
 
You need to start on the oil fired Rayburns first, by taking an OFTEC50 for new entrants course usually 5days ,this will allow you to take the OFT101,105E,& 600A assessments.When complete you can the join OTFEC, this will get you started
 
i am gsr and oftec its ok doing courses but should you come up against complications your in big trouble i suggest going with some one first learn the ropes then do your courses
 
Thanks for advice - no one seems to be willing to take me on. I have tried local engineers to no avail.
 
Engineers don't want to teach people these days as you then become competition to them in a tough market these days
But best of luck
 
Engineers don't want to teach people these days as you then become competition to them in a tough market these days
But best of luck

i think thats a little harsh, less to do with competition and more to do with lack of work. There have been many many more people do basic plumbing courses over the last few years who now want their nvq, so it stands to reason the industry couldnt provide the experience to all of them, this has been pointed out 100,s of times but newbies dont want to hear it. apparently its negative!
 
Don't see my comment as harsh at all just the truth as I see it
As you said there a lot of fast track students looking to get nvqs if they all got the experience off engineers/ plumbers then the market would be saturated
 
i agree with youre comment on lack of work also fuzzy but that is due to all the people wanting into the career choice so as grey said people aint wanting to give the new guys the chance to take away work later on in life iknow we aint all like this but it is an issue and some engineers hae decided it just has to be this way
 
i think thats a little harsh, less to do with competition and more to do with lack of work. There have been many many more people do basic plumbing courses over the last few years who now want their nvq, so it stands to reason the industry couldnt provide the experience to all of them, this has been pointed out 100,s of times but newbies dont want to hear it. apparently its negative!

The current situation is down to macro-economic strategies. Skill comparisons with Europe and the need for the UK to increase its intermediate skills base (which means working class people getting qualifications, they did not get from school)

Government are turning a blind eye here - its obvious. There are no national statistics for people on plumbing courses - I would take an educated guess at around 100,000 people training for plumbing and gas. The government's own research via summitskills reports a need for around 3,000 plumbers per year. Now, this is not just a situation where there are around thirty times the number of entrants each year, than required, this statistic is ***ulative, its been going on since about 2004.

If people don't get jobs, the government are not really bothered, because they have qualifications they didn't have - e.g. qualifications are economic capital.

If people set up in business and go bust every three years, this is great for the econonomy, because professionals providing services to businesses like accountants, lawyers, bankers, still get paid...vans get bought, tools get bought, more courses get bought, insurance gets bought and then bust. But there are plenty more willing to re-mortgage, borrow, beg or steal to get into an industry...where a blind eye is being turned by government.

The plumbing industry is a victim of predatory capital (e.g. Gas Safe).

It is understandable that engineers might not want to take on apprentices, because a situation arose from the 1980s where unions were smashed and operatives fragmented into self employed economic units. If one-man-band takes an apprentice, this is competition and competition on a local level, does not play out like the competition of big business. We also have the problem of government paying large businesses like British Gas, money to take more apprentices than they need - which means those who qualify may have to go it alone following apprenticeship, which further over-supplies the market.

Apprenticeship is a concept, which is sustainable, one-out-one-in. There is no difference from ancient times, with regard to business - you can't have ten blacksmiths in a small village.

The existing training arrangements mean that employers are no longer needed to train apprentices (although I accept in reality this is not satisfactory), they can do a course. So the naturally sustainable concept of apprenticeship becomes meaningless.

There is no collective opposition, to education policies nor challenges from our industry (because those in power are doing very nicely out of this - blind eye syndrome again). And there seems to be an growing demand for operatives to enter the sector, due to the continual marketing of 'skill shortages' - which are really a red herring because economic strategies work on the mono-causal assumption that more skills mean more capital growth (I thought making and selling things brought capital growth) - hence we can never have too many skills, because we can never have enough growth - thus we are always in a position of a skills shortage.

I feel sorry for those entering the industry, because we as installers, have failed to sort our own industry out, and left it to the 'City' to run. We know what happened in banking, the next big bust will be the training sector, which is not really geared for training experienced technicians, but designed to help new entrants become bankrupt.
 
To get aga rayburn training and take the OFTEC50 you need to ask the training provider ,
 
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Spot on ,all the gov does is talk about training the young and it ends there
 
Cannot argue with much of what you say clanger, or the bits i understand anyway lol

Yes trades used to be served by traditional apprenticeships but then they opened up as education only, it is obvious theres lots of pressure from newbies for this option. problem is it does not create the experienced or skills required to do the job. for that they need experience, but cannot get it

ive said before more often than not training linked to employers has always gone on and when there is more work there are more apprenticeships so is in some way is self regulating. having the newbies come through education only means there is no cap, many people have wanted to be plumbers, done it the college/centre way and now are left without employment.

This is fine if they entered with eyes open but all too often they believe the hype of false advertising and then get angry at local employers for not employing/training them, IMO this is misplaced
 
Spot on ,all the gov does is talk about training the young and it ends there

most trade areas in college have doubled over the last decade, we have also seen many private providers being built, so i would suggest they have spent lots on education

there are no fees for 16-18 year olds in education, so i would disagree that the government dont train the young
 
The private providers are not funded by the Gov, and if the newbie can not get experience in the field by building a portfolio as gas engineer whats the point. I get many calls to take on students to gain exp, now if gov want to contribute to that wow
 
the gov can only pay so much out and try to give more to school leavers and to those out of work

still the problem is being brought about by too many full timers
 
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