Fast track courses worth it?

[Joe Shmoe]

Hi gents,

Having lost my job in an industry I no longer want to work in, I am doing my research as to whether plumbing could be an option for the future.

I used to work as a photographic set builder and have done quite a bit of renovation work on my house, so have quite a few tools and am handy in building etc. I have fit a couple of sinks and kitchen taps, and replaced two bathroom suites for family which I enjoyed, so I am confident of doing the basics. All the work turned out good, but I have no idea of what I am doing, other than applying logic to what I am trying to achive and watching YouTube videos for training.

If I am to make a proper career, I want to get training so I can do the whole hog, that includes central heating systems and boiler fitting etc.

My question is, if I was to do the OLCI 'traing to be a plumber course' followed by the Advanced course which teaches boilers and central heating, would I be in a position to set-up as a self-employed plumber, or would I still need additional training, or real-life experience etc?

I want to do things the best way possible, but don't want to invest money and not come out fully trained for what I want to do at the end of it.

I do have the advantage of being used to building, and can plaster, tile and build to reasonable standard, so I am not a total novice, but I have no plumbing experience other than a few baths and sinks and some basic copper pipe work.

Any pointers from seasoned plumbers or those who have taken the OLCI courses would be much appreciated.


Regards
Joe.

 

[SimonG]

Go for it mate, if you think you can do it.

But first methinks you should introduce yourself to the search function on the forum and find out just how bad an idea it is.

 

[grahamgas]

Also have a go on the search function for olci.... you may change your mind.

If you do go for it, then when you first start out remember to know your limitations... it can be very easy to get out of your depth in this game, if you are not used to it

 

[SimonG]

No disrespect intended with my response, I'm in spade is a spade mode.

and welcome to the forum Joe.

 

[Resolute]

If you do go for it, then when you first start out remember to know your limitations... it can be very easy to get out of your depth in this game, if you are not used to it

Good advice, I get out of depth occasionally but luckily I have a team of colleagues to call on for advice!

 

[nicro3]

Welcome Joe, Agree with SimonG on this one. The plumbing industry is overflowing (pardon the pun) at the moment and blokes who have been in the game for years find it a struggle. I would say do your homework on the risk and return of entering the world of plumbing, but wish you luck in whatever you decide to do.

 

[Dotty]

Welcome to the forums Joe. I agree with both Simon and Nicro on this. This industry is rapidly reaching saturation point as did the IT industry 10-12 year ago.

Established plumbers are struggling. These fast track courses only exist for one purpose. And, to be blunt, it ain't to turn out more plumbers into the industry. It's to line their own pockets!

The best way to become wealthy these days is to become a training provider!

 

[Subby]

Fast track is only any use if you are already emloyed, and your boss wants you to have the papers for whatever reason. You won't learn much on the course.

 

[Roger Welton]

The best way to become wealthy these days is to become a training provider!

Is there a fast track course I can do to become one?

 

[Howsie]

They are what they are. A little expensive for what you learn and not a substitute for time on the tools.

If you want an 'in' to the industry I think this is the easiest route. Sadly.

 

[Ray Stafford]

The best way to become wealthy these days is to become a training provider!

Yet they seem to go bust pretty regularly.

 

[petercj]

Yet they seem to go bust pretty regularly.

So who trains them for a new career?

 

[petercj]

Quite interesting to compare today's responses with those made back in 2008...

http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/plumbing-courses/242-olci-training.html

One of Britain's long-standing problems (one of many) is that over the past 30 years the majority of employers in most fields have shown little interest in training people - they want to employ staff who come through their doors ready to get on with the job.

Now of course things are even more that way because employers can cherry-pick from a growing pool of unemployed people with established skills.

The Germans put more value on training and have done so much better than Britain over the past 30 years.

In Britain the issue of training is a hot-potato that has been thrown back and forth between various Governments and the private sector.

 

[Howsie]

Spot on!

 

[NVivas]

its a fair point that people are being realistic about work but we cant forget that some plumbers are employed and do get jobs out there. im lucky enough to be in work at the moment.

 

[Masood]

I've always stayed away from these threads due to the amount of scorn and occasional outright hatred directed at C&G 6129 fast-track entrants to the industry, but I'm going to throw my penn'orth in here.

I have a somewhat similar background to you - my Dad was a builder (time-served chippie, but became an all-rounder). He did not want me to follow him on to the tools so I ended up with an IT degree and almost 20 years later, hated it with a passion. I was working in an investment bank, on a sickening salary, and miserable as hell.

Along came the credit crunch, and redundancy. I knew that this was my chance to do something I loved (I'd done a lot of plumbing and carpentry in my own home, for friends and family, and these were the few days in almost a lifetime that I was genuinely happy. So I took a job driving buses to keep the bills covered and used my redundancy money to do C&G 6129 - 3 weeks home study and 5 weeks in the training facility. I also did ACS gas. I worked for free, 2 days a week on my days off, for about 4 weeks to get experience for my gas portfolio. After 4 weeks, the guy offered me a job, on a very small percentage of his clear profit. I took it.

I'm now Gas Safe registered, and building my NVQ level 2 portfolio. I'm self-employed. I work pretty much full-time, and I earn a decent wage.

What is the point of my post? Just to say - DO IT!. You have one life, live it. It is not easy, there are a lot of plumbers out there. There are even more DIYers and other trades who will do plumbing as well. But if you focus on A) always keeping your word, turning up when you say you will, B) always being honest and upfront with customers C) always delivering a quality job, you can be successful.

I never refuse a job - blocked toilet at 3 AM, I'm there. 50-mile round-trip for a tap washer, I'm there. And each of those jobs leads to more work, and recommendations. My customers treat me as a trusted friend.

There are days when I feel totally out of my depth - scared witless, to be honest! But, staying calm, being logical, communicating with the customer, I get through. And each and every time, I learn something new, get a bit more confident, a bit more accomplished. And those days are becoming fewer and farther between, I don't know everything, but I know enough to do most things, and to figure the rest out, given a bit of time.

So - if you really want it, do it. Stay focused, learn from everyone and everything, each time you install a new tap, appliance, whatever, read the instructions - you might learn something new, however small, that is unique to that make or model.. If you take an old one out, take it apart and look at how it works. Use the forums, ask questions. Stay humble and realise that the short course is *just* the beginning, and you'll do fine.

Sorry for the essay - I see so many threads asking whether it's worth getting into plumbing, and I see the same replies over and over, I just wanted to give a different perspective. Good luck, buddy!

 

[mark75]

well said masood !!!

 

[REDSAW]

you cant go around quoting things like that masood, unless you own a landy!!!


if the o.p is good at tiling and plastering, why not try that theres plenty of work going..

 

[Equal tee]

Hi everyone, very interesting good luck!!!

 

[chris watkins]

Hi Masood
As you say there are many negative post about the route you have taken, I can tell that you will make a good plumber & no doubt build a successful company, & here it is - BUT you will be one of the few. Looking at it dispassionately what would you say was the better route into the industry ? For instants if you had your time again would you have started as a young apprentice plumber or go into I.T ? Is this the best form of training to become a plumber or would it be better if we had some other form of selection process ?
How many must fail because they are lead (or encourage) to believe that it is possible to learn what is required to become one in some old training centre, estimates range from 30 - 40,000 young & old who have taken the C&G 6129 over it's 7 year life, how many of them are still in the trade ???

The real challenge for the trade (& our government) is how to select & train the new generation entrants without relying on market forces with the resulting disappointed hopefuls, disillusioned college leavers with no job, & yet turn out highly skilled trades persons who can design, install & maintain the complicated modern equipment without customers having to scourer the earth to find one.
Any suggestions ??

 

[Masood]

you cant go around quoting things like that masood, unless you own a landy!!!

Sorry, don't understand that!

 

[Masood]

Hi Masood
As you say there are many negative post about the route you have taken, I can tell that you will make a good plumber & no doubt build a successful company, & here it is - BUT you will be one of the few. Looking at it dispassionately what would you say was the better route into the industry ? For instants if you had your time again would you have started as a young apprentice plumber or go into I.T ? Is this the best form of training to become a plumber or would it be better if we had some other form of selection process ?
How many must fail because they are lead (or encourage) to believe that it is possible to learn what is required to become one in some old training centre, estimates range from 30 - 40,000 young & old who have taken the C&G 6129 over it's 7 year life, how many of them are still in the trade ???

The real challenge for the trade (& our government) is how to select & train the new generation entrants without relying on market forces with the resulting disappointed hopefuls, disillusioned college leavers with no job, & yet turn out highly skilled trades persons who can design, install & maintain the complicated modern equipment without customers having to scourer the earth to find one.
Any suggestions ??

Hi Chris,

Can't argue whatsoever with what you say - there is no substitute for gradual development of skills under the supervision of an expert. The kind of repetition that an apprentice gets over 4 years leads to a level of skill that simply cannot be taught in a purpose-built training warehouse somewhere, with nice open bays, clean floors, all the equipment at your fingertips and no customer peering over your shoulder!

I agree that the training companies have sold an expensive dream to so many people who had no hope whatsoever of achieving it. I'd say probably 70% of the candidates training at the same time as me on the C&G would have no hope in hell in the real world - either no capable of the physical aspects, or too squeamish to deal with the less sanitary side of things, or too abrasive to be able to deal with the public. The "selection" process for these companies is laughable - can you enter your PIN? OK, then you've passed the entrance exam.

But we are living in a climate where people are desperate to do *something*, *anything* - no job is secure, no career is future-proof any more. You can't blame people for clutching at opportunities (or the dream of an opportunity). Perhaps the answer is for the government to spend real, meaningful amounts of money on apprenticeship schemes, not only for 16-year-olds, but for older candidates too. Perhaps equally the answer is to force training companies to be honest about earnings, and realistic about who they take on. Perhaps the answer lies with plumbers themselves - so few people are willing to take on trainees, whether for plumbing or gas portfolios. I know it slows them down, but surely that's better than leaving training and development to profit-making firms? I don't know, to be honest - if I did I'd probably be rich!

 

[Mike Jackson]

Sorry, don't understand that!

You said you never turn a job down. What happens when the roads are flooded or there's 2 foot of snow on the ground? You'll be stuck at the side of the road while us sensible types pootle past you in our land rovers.

 

[Masood]

You said you never turn a job down. What happens when the roads are flooded or there's 2 foot of snow on the ground? You'll be stuck at the side of the road while us sensible types pootle past you in our land rovers.

Aaah! Sorry, that went right over my head LOL. Um, you got me there - I guess I need a landy! I wonder if the tax man would see it as a legitimate business need?

 

[petercj]

Well said Masood, you have given some sound and constructive advice, which for anyone thinking of setting out should be valuable.

Like you, I have been rather surprised at some of the harsh responses some people have received over inquiries into training courses, after all, they are the ones doing some well placed research by asking questions in this forum, and they are NOT the naive ones who think they will make a quick fortune out of the plumbing/gas industry.

Fact is, there are no easy answers to finding employment in most industries at the moment.

The plumbing and gas industry went through a period of skill shortages for around 20 years, which meant that those that were competent in the industry had some good times. People who experienced the golden era of gas & plumbing over the past 30 years have Mrs Thatcher to thank for putting policies into place that led to the skills shortage. At the end of the 90's steps were take to address the skills shortage and now the pendulum has swung the other way, made worse of course by the current recession.

However, as in the recession of the 70's, there will always be some people who can make it if they give it their all and they have an aptitude for the work they want to do. Attitude and aptitude count for a lot when learning any trade.

Those that have worked in the industry over a long period will no doubt have accrued many skills, but some of the old hands will be tired and demotivated, while some of the younger experience tradesmen will be complacent and picky, i.e. they've had the good times and so will be reluctant to respond to a market where the scales have tipped in favour of the customer.

Also, during the days of skills shortage peeps didn't have to worry too much about marketing because it was the customers doing the chasing, now its the other way around. This forum has often provided evidence of the lack of knowledge experienced people have when it comes to marketing their businesses.

People who come on a career change into any industry bring a range of transferable general skills with them, communication skills often being one of them. Marketing is about using good communication skills, as is talking to the customer and creating an acceptable presence in their homes. The attitude of: "you're lucky to have me here because everyone's busy" isn't going to wash any more". Dealing with difficult situations when they arise in people's homes requires tact and being able to think on your feet. Ripping people off means that most won't come back, and these days you need people to come back whenever possible. Being considered fair and trustworthy goes a long way with people, and you don't learn such level-headedness on college courses.

Providing people want it bad enough and have the right aptitude and attitude, they will get where they want to be - Masood, you're a great role model for anyone setting out.

 

[chris watkins]

Hi Petercj
First off, yes I have worked in the industry for a long time (34 years) & have worked in most areas, so you could call me an old hand but not tired nor demotivated, maybe a tad despondent but not enough to stop me wanting to fight to maintain standards in an industry I love.
The transferable skills you talk about, communication ,marketing & people skills are all well & good & may allow someone to run a successful plumbing business bar the one important missing skill you neglected to mention, that of plumbing !!!!!
Most of us thought it worth while learning that one first & if good at it & though it was something that we could sell, we would start a business. What you seem to be suggesting is the other way around, learning on the job at the customers expense, still remaining level-headed while the water pours though their ceiling will be handy or perhaps it may never have happened if they had been properly trained.
Your right about Masood's attitude & aptitude, (& a good few others) but it is also clear that we can't have a industry made up of people who solely enter via this route. If this way into the industry is to be allowed then some control on the numbers & entry level skills needs to be in place for everybody's sake.

 

[petercj]

Hi Petercj

The transferable skills you talk about, communication ,marketing & people skills are all well & good & may allow someone to run a successful plumbing business bar the one important missing skill you neglected to mention, that of plumbing !!!!!
.

As this thread is about training in plumbing, so learning the necessary skills is an implicit aspect of the topic: my point was that people making career changes often bring generic transferable skills and also a level of maturityto compliment their trade skills, which is not to suggest that they don't need to acquire the necessary plumbing skills.

Training in classroom conditions is about acquiring theory and know-how, and more often than not, there will be little opportunity to put such learning into practice within the college or training centre - which applies to most industrial training done in colleges.

Such circumstances require the trainee to take considerable responsibility for their learning and to recognise that what they learn in college is only one aspect of what they need to do in order to develop their skills. Any trainer worth their salt will be explaining this to their students on day one. The more mature a trainee is, and the more life experience they have, the better the chances of them being able to sustain motivation and apply themselves with some consistency and determination.

I am aware that you have been involved in training, but I am somewhat surprised at the jaundice view you present of trainees sometimes.

Even if some people are naive, they are only trying to help themselves and find work after all said and done. Why not give them the benefit of your knowledge and experience without being so scathing?

 

[Subby]

Fast track = The cowboy route

 

[Guest123]

Some fast track courses are useful. For example a plumber wanting to do an unvented course or learn the basics of tiling or electrics to add to the skills they have learned. Don't think it's a good way to learn a complete trade though.

 

[chris watkins]

Training in classroom conditions is about acquiring theory and know-how, and more often than not, there will be little opportunity to put such learning into practice within the college or training centre - which applies to most industrial training done in colleges.

I am aware that you have been involved in training, but I am somewhat surprised at the jaundice view you present of trainees sometimes.

Even if some people are naive, they are only trying to help themselves and find work after all said and done. Why not give them the benefit of your knowledge and experience without being so scathing?

The difference between the two types of learner, which you seem to be ignoring Peter, is the 4 day's a week for 4 years that the apprentice does learning from the plumbers on site doing the actual job of plumbing, in the actual work place under there supervision. They have the opportunity through this time to see how what they are learning in a classroom is applied in the work place. Which is precisely the reason why doesn't work the other way. "Training in classroom conditions is about acquiring theory and know-how, and more often than not, there will be little opportunity to put such learning into practice within the college or training centre - which applies to most industrial training done in colleges". Your words I believe ?

Can you guess what sort of training I have been involved in ? As far as giving the benefit of my knowledge & experience away, well I do that on a daily basis to those who will be able to make the best use of it & the reason I do it is simple, I came through a system where people gave me there knowledge & experience without me having to pay them, I am only returning what I owe.

The big question with a fragmented industry consisting of small firms & little money due to undercutting, who is able to take on an apprentice for this system to continue ??

 

[REDSAW]

Sorry, don't understand that!

'one life-live it'

 

[kirkgas]

Is there a fast track course I can do to become one?

if you are time served the do your A1 and V1 (5-6 days total collating work/reports/ being checked doing a dual assessment) then you are a trainer, as plenty will say before i do, it also helps if you are no good at the job and need to get away from real work haha

 

[Mike Jackson]

From my experience of the tutors at the local college you will also take a serious cut in money if you work for a normal college. I think you need to go to a specialist training centre if you want to earn big bucks like Kirk.

 

[WHPES]

Health, Safety and Environmental training is always in demand

 

[petercj]

The difference between the two types of learner, which you seem to be ignoring Peter, is the 4 day's a week for 4 years that the apprentice does learning from the plumbers on site doing the actual job of plumbing, in the actual work place under there supervision. They have the opportunity through this time to see how what they are learning in a classroom is applied in the work place. Which is precisely the reason why doesn't work the other way. "Training in classroom conditions is about acquiring theory and know-how, and more often than not, there will be little opportunity to put such learning into practice within the college or training centre - which applies to most industrial training done in colleges". Your words I believe ?

Can you guess what sort of training I have been involved in ? As far as giving the benefit of my knowledge & experience away, well I do that on a daily basis to those who will be able to make the best use of it & the reason I do it is simple, I came through a system where people gave me there knowledge & experience without me having to pay them, I am only returning what I owe.

The big question with a fragmented industry consisting of small firms & little money due to undercutting, who is able to take on an apprentice for this system to continue ??

I think you must have misunderstood my post, because there's no way I would ever suggest that full time college training or anything similar could match up to 4 days on the job and one day in college - being the classic model for apprenticeship training in the past.

But the reality is that such training opportunities are not available to many people, even if they meet the eligibility criteria.

If people are unemployed, or they anticipate redundancy and they are desperate to get a foot on the first rung of the ladder, then fast-track training might be their only option.

When I see the term 'fast track' in an educational context I think of a condensed learning situation that means covering a lot of ground in a relatively short space of time, which is not the same thing as meaning it's a fast track into a job. However, for people who don't have established trade skills a fast-track course might give them the edge over someone who has done no training at all.

These days most employers want experienced people and they don't have much time for training people up, and at the moment it's an employers market anyway, so getting a foot on the ladder for newbies is likely to be tough. What I was saying is that if people bring maturity and other transferable skills to their endeavours then that is likely to increase their chances of success.

Fast-track learning usually means negotiating a steep learning curve, and so may not be suitable for some people, i.e. not everyone learns in the same way, and so FT is likely to suite some people more than others. If people bring established study skills and a good memory to their work, that's bound to help. Aptitude, and a positive but realistic attitude will also stand people in very good stead.

I helped to set up the Employment Training scheme in 1989/90, and did a year as a Training Assessor. The scheme was cribbed from the German model of training and was excellent. Had that scheme been properly supported and funded by the Thatcher Government Britain would be in a much better place today.

Unfortunately, the ideological leanings of a woman brought up in a corner shop led to abandonment of the Man Power Services commission and the associated Government SKILLS training centres, one of the functions of which was to act as a mechanism for coordinating the supply and demand of construction skills.

MPS/SKILLS training centres provided what could be considered fast-track training, but they did it with an emphasis on simulated work situations, rather than being class-room base. When assessing referrals for training as brickie they would look for basic dexterity, and being low on basic literacy skills wouldn't be a bar.

Britain has had 30 years of Government by people who preach responsibility rather than demonstrating any themselves - they've just abdicated all responsibility to the market place and private enterprise, and the current FU is the result.

But to focus on the current topic, I totally agree that 4 days in the workplace and one in college is an ideal model, but the reality is that it's not available to large numbers of people looking for such an opportunity, and it's unlikely to be practicable for people who have a family to support and so need a substantial wage.

With the changes in university funding the scene has been set for people with advanced academic skills to become interested in practical training, and I would think the gas industry will benefit from an influx of such folk.

If I had any say in the matter I would create an agency to do what the old MPSC commission did, and set up Government training centres around the country to provide the best training possible - but my thinking is what people now brand as 'old labour' (even though it was Ted Heath's Government that set up the MPSC)