F & E tank for Elson Diamond

[StewA]

I have had severe problems with sludge in my CH system. The sludge has now been cleaned out and to try and prevent this happening again I gave the system a dose of inhibitor. This was fine for a few days but then I started getting a strong smell from the hot water.

The water tank is an Elson Diamond and apparently because it is a primatic tank you cannot use inhibitor with it.
My plan is to blank off the built in F & E tank and fit an external tank on top of the Elson.

At present the feed comes out of the tank and is Tee'd into the primary return just after it leaves the tank.
The vent pipe runs down to the airing cupboard and is Tee'd into the low pressure side of the pump.

The tank I am thinking of using is a "Polytank 18l Expansion Tank" from B&Q.

I believe the vent pipe would be ok as it is, but would the feed be ok going to the primary return where it is now? I am concerned about heat travelling up to the F & E tank as it is plastic.

Is this plan feasible or is there a better way to allow me to use inhibitor?
Thanks Stew

 

[itcanbesoeasy]

Here are the manufacturers recommendations

5. INHIBITOR

As the Amber is manufactured from copper sheet it does not require an inhibitor. However, pump and radiator manufacturers recommend an inhibitor is used and it is a mandatory requirement by some boiler manufacturers. We therefore feel that the correct use of inhibitor in the system will improve the overall efficiency, reliability and longevity of the complete system.

New system




The inhibitor should be added to the primary chamber of the tank via the 22 mm fitting on the top of the tank, see Fig. 2.This MUST be PRIOR to filling the system with water on the final fill. Remove the 22 mm red plastic cap from the fitting on top of the tank, and pour the correct dose of inhibitor (refer to manufacturers instructions) directly into the fitting. Replace the plastic cap. DO NOT introduce inhibitor directly into the cold feed tank with the black plastic lid.

Existing system

Turn off the cold water supply to the tank.
Turn on the bath tap and run off approximately 25 litres of domestic water.
Drain approximately 20 litres of primary water from either the boiler/radiators or system drain cock.
Introduce the correct dose of inhibitor, via the 22 mm fitting on the top of the tank, as described above in the New System instructions.
Turn on the water supply, ensuring that the ball valve in the tank is set to the correct water level in the cold feed cistern.

 

[StewA]

Thanks for reply itcanbesoeasy but those instructions are for the Elson Amber tank which is fitted with 2 feed tanks with their own ball valves.
The Elson Diamond only has 1 feed tank and ball valve , the 2 systems only being seperated by an air bubble.

 

[itcanbesoeasy]

ok, I am confused, if it is a primatic tank then the cold feed and vent for the heating is incorporated inside,there is an air bubble stopping(as you say) the heating water mixing with the domestic hot water,both are filled from the one header tank,so what will you achieve by capping off the original tank and fitting a new one ?,

fitting a new plastic tank is okay as a conventional heating systems have them but usually in the attic but in the airing cupboard is fine and the vent pipe shouldn't discharge over a plastic float on the ballvalve.

 

[StewA]

Hi itcanbesoeasy,
Obviously the air bubble isn't doing it's job and is allowing the ch water to contaminate the domestic hot water.
I intend adding a tank to supply only the central heating and leaving the original tank to supply the domestic hot water. This keeps the 2 systems seperate.
The pipes I'm going to cap are the cold feed to the heating and the vent from the heating. The heating will be supplied and vented to the new tank.

 

[Riley]

Do you understand how a primatic cylinder works

 

[SimonG]

Do you understand how a primatic cylinder works

I can answer that one for them......NO!

 

[Rickster123]

Itcanbesoeasy have you been here before? You seem familiar?...

 

[itcanbesoeasy]

these photos aren't from an elson but will give you an idea, if you cap off the vent and cold feed and connect new you still be connecting to the primatic tank inside,it will be exactly the same,

Is there a immersion port, if so you can cap off the pipes going in to the elson and fit your new tank,vent and cold feed isolating your primatic tank and fitting an electric immersion or take out the blanking plate and fit a (can't remember what it's called,maybe a "micky") non electric immersion that has 2 pipes coming out and connect it in with your heating pipes,vent, cold feed and plastic tank, can you upload a photo please

 

[itcanbesoeasy]

Itcanbesoeasy have you been here before? You seem familiar?...

no first time on here

 

[StewA]

Hi itcanbesoeasy
In the Elson Diamond if I cap the feed and vent connections there will be no connections between domestic hot water and heating. The only problem I can think off which I asked in original post would be any heat travelling up the feed pipe to the tank causing problems with the tank being plastic.

 

[Riley]

Please do not cap the vent pipe as this is for safety as well as expansion

 

[jonnyswamp]

Do yourself a favour stewa, remove it and upgrade first as last, it may be an expense you could do without but I'd say it's necessary
Theoretically your plan can work, but you'll still be left with contaminated hot water for quite a while (not good if you have young uns who bath)
As for fitting a "mickey" (microversion) you'll be hard pressed to find one of those these days
Bite the bullet mate and drag yourself into this century
Get in touch with a local experienced plumber who can advise the best boiler/system for your needs

 

[StewA]

So johnnyswamp should I pay you £2000+ for a new system or fit a tank for approx £40?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

So johnnyswamp should I pay you £2000+ for a new system or fit a tank for approx £40?

new system (eg new cylinder and boiler depending on age and power flush etc)

 

[lame plumber]

So johnnyswamp should I pay you £2000+ for a new system or fit a tank for approx £40?

no mate, just pay someone who would have known not to add inhibitor in the first place

 

[jonnyswamp]

So johnnyswamp should I pay you £2000+ for a new system or fit a tank for approx £40?

Depends if you want an energy efficient, up to date boiler and system which you shouldn't have to worry about for the next 7-10 yrs, which could save approx 20-30% on your fuel bills
Or regularly have your current system giving you grief when you don't need it
And £3000+ at a rough guess (a flat with solid floors etc?)
Not having a go at you fella, but experience of those types of systems tells me there will always be something going wrong, boiler,rads, pipe, etc all the same age and getting ripe

 

[Riley]

So johnnyswamp should I pay you £2000+ for a new system or fit a tank for approx £40?

£40 done wrong

 

[StewA]

Let's get something straight, I will not be replacing a system which is working perfectly well.
All I want to do is add inhibitor which will help to keep it working into the future.

£40 done wrong

Riley, would you like to expand on this and explain what would be so wrong.

 

[oz-plumber]

Obviously not Riley,

but doing so you will be changing how the system was designed to be operated
and at your peril.

 

[Riley]

That's exactly my point you want the cylinder to do something it's not designed to do. With the greatest will In the world you cannot guarantee that the ch & dhw will remain separate in a primatic cylinder so inhibitor to the system is just asking for trouble in my opinion

 

[StewA]

Hi Riley
All the connections to the primary are outside the tank. By blanking off these connections the tank behaves like an indirect cylinder with it's own built in feed tank.

 

[oz-plumber]

Hi Riley
All the connections to the primary are outside the tank. By blanking off these connections the tank behaves like an indirect cylinder with it's own built in feed tank.

Are you asking a question or making a statement?

 

[Riley]

I would be intrigued to know what your house insurance would say about it that's all. It's a pretty serious non intended mod

 

[StewA]

Just trying to explain the tank so that people who possibly haven't seen an Elson Diamond can give me some informed advice.

 

[Riley]

Post some pics and someone might help but it sounds to me like you're going to do it either way so I'm out!! :waving:

 

[oz-plumber]

Just trying to explain the tank so that people who possibly haven't seen an Elson Diamond can give me some informed advice.

So your only after 'informed' advice from people who haven't seen an Elson Diamond cylinder.

Honestly, I've never seen one but fully understand the concept of how they work.... unlike you - who has seen one but doesn't fully understand the concept of how they work.

So probably, I could be one of the people you want advice from - but most probably you would be a person who would not take the advice that was given to you, unless it suited you.

You have been given advice but have chosen not to accept it.

 

[StewA]

Hi oz-plumber
if you click on this link you will find details of an Elson Diamond.

www.gotogasdocs.co.uk/f/m/Elson/Rectangular Combination Tanks/Diamond.pdf

Maybe if you read it and digest it you may well be able to give me some informed advice instead of trying to slag me off.

 

[SimonG]

I love these posts.

I want to do xyx what do you think?

No it wont work and may be dangerous.

It will work and im going to do it anyway.

Ffs reminds me of my kids when they were 2.

 

[rocketmanbkk]

I think the op is going to do what he thinks no matter what advice he gets.

I sense an issue with wanting to argue the points raised.

Op knows best. I say good luck

Unfollowing now!

 

[Dotty]

OP. You have come on here looking for confirmation that your very bad idea will work.

You've been told no, and why not several times over. You are now arguing with professionals in the field with many years of experience between them because you have not had the answer you think you want.

Do what ever you like. You're getting no more answers from this forum on this particular matter.