Disaster and stress!

[Fedup]

Fedup can you take a picture of this so we can check it for you? Welcome to the forum

The commissioning bit?

 

[Dotty]

CO2's high for my liking

 

[Fedup]

For my liking, the rest is rubbish, condensate hasn't been installed in accordance, as it's dripping onto the oil pipe.

 

[Dotty]

It's going to be worth your while to get an OFTEC qualified engineer in, fedup.

Whereabouts in the country are you, one of us may be within spitting distance.

 

[Fedup]

Lincolnshire, near Louth

 

[WHPES]

You should have a CD11 and CD10 form as well as this, and also a Building Control Completion Certificate from your LABC dept or the guarantee is worthless and your home insurance may not cover you in the event of a fire, leak or breakdown and you may have problems if you come to sell your house.

There doesn't look to be sufficient room under the filter bowl (red unit under the tigerloop) for routine maintenance and changing the filter element. Here's guessing they didn't use pipe stiffeners in the ends of the copper or test the old fire valve to check it still works either.

 

[Fedup]

You should have a CD11 and CD10 form as well as this, and also a Building Control Completion Certificate from your LABC dept or the guarantee is worthless and your home insurance may not cover you in the event of a fire, leak or breakdown and you may have problems if you come to sell your house.

There doesn't look to be sufficient room under the filter bowl (red unit under the tigerloop) for routine maintenance and changing the filter element. Here's guessing they didn't use pipe stiffeners in the ends of the copper or test the old fire valve to check it still works either.

They are definitely OFTEC registered (croppie). They are meant to be coming back tomorrow, so I will see how it goes. I take it LABC is local authority building control? I will give them a ring as well tomorrow. The whole saga is just a nightmare, as I have scolding hot water in the kitchen, but it's not giving a hot bath, and a shower is out of the question, as they blew them up!
Wish me luck, and many thanks to you all.

 

[SimonG]

To get a hot bath turn the hot tap on and then close it half way so the water stream is about the size of your little finger. Your original system had 22mm pipe to the bath from the cylinder, your new system relies on a 15mm cold water feed, so you can actually run more water through the bath tap than the system will cope with. Something I always explain to my customers and fit a valve on the bath hot feed to restrict the flow.

 

[Dannypipe]

Where is your CD10 and CD11?

What you've photographed is part of the installation documents as supplied with the boiler.

 

[WHPES]

If you don't get any success and are still not happy you could contact OFTEC and if they are registered and OFTEC deems the installation to be unsatisfactory, OFTEC may get it sorted out for you properly.

 

[Fedup]

I don't have a CD10/11. Are they certificates? I was told certificates would take a month to get sent to me.

 

[WHPES]

Yes you should have both of these. Don't pay anything until you have all the paperwork and are satisfied.

The LABC certificate can take up to a month sometimes, but you need the CD10 and CD11 for any warranty etc.

 

[SimonG]

cd/11

 

[Fedup]

Oh no SimonG, I don't have anything like that!

 

[dontknowitall]

I shouldn't really say this but I'm appalled by that installation. I'm not perfect but neither am I lazy and I pay good money to keep myself up to standard.

So, with this in mind, you can phone Worcester (phone number's in the manual.) They are very approachable and might send an engineer. It's in Worcester's interests to ensure a boiler's installed correctly as it's they who pay for the warranty ultimately.

I visited this thread earlier and felt I shouldn't post.

Then on returning I thought, "Flamin' 'eck! I spend hundreds on qualifying, learning, insurance and so on, so why should I put up with cowboys?!!!"

 

[Fedup]

I did speak to Oftec last week, and they told me I had to try and resolve the problems, but they wouldn't help with the shower stuff. Only the boiler.

 

[WHPES]

This is because the shower issue is technically not part of the install, but a symptom of the change in flow. However the company should have pointed out to you that it may need a flow reducer.

 

[Fedup]

Ah yes, they ''assumed'' the showers would cope! :grin:

 

[Dannypipe]

Get on to the installer, and double check that they actually are OFTEC registered.

Ask them to put in writing how they intend to replace the expansion vessel if it fails. Whether the condensate pipe work complies with building regulations (it doesn't BTW), whether they used inserts on the compressions joints of the 10mm soft copper, and whether the boiler has been commissioned properly with a pressure gauge on the pump and using an electronic combustion analyser. Ask them to put a copy of their print off with the reply for your records.

Then ask them where the CD10/11 is and ask if they have registered the install with building control.

Once you know all these things, you will know if you've got a bona fide heating engineer in your property....or not.

A bona fide heating installer does all those things automatically. It's standard practise.

I staple my print off from the analyser to the Benchmark details for the next service engineer to see.

 

[Dannypipe]

Cowboys. They often make us guys look expensive. But we take the time to do the job properly, and to do all the paper work (which is a pain in the bum).

Annoying.

 

[Koogatubac]

Danny - btw what do you mean inserts for 10mm copper?

 

[SimonG]

Oh no SimonG, I don't have anything like that!

That was a copy of a cd/11, basically the commissioning report. There's two copies, one for you and one for the commissioning engineer. There should also be a cd/10 which is the installation report, again two copies.

 

[dontknowitall]

Danny - btw what do you mean inserts for 10mm copper?

They're like the ones used in plastic plumbing. From memory Type B fittings don't require them but Type A fittings do need them. Bit of a menace but they do make connections easier, ironically, as they give strength to the pipe.

 

[WHPES]

I use type B fittings as standard where I can as they are the most reliable.

 

[Bunker]

Totally agree with the above on all counts.
Please ask them to change the fire valve if its the old 90degree one, needs to be 65 degrees on a condensing boiler.
PLEASE tell me they fitted a proper water softener, otherwise it won't be under any warrantee and the heat exchanger won't last long (unless you naturally have soft water)
I'd definitely ask if an OFTEC inspector could come and look at it.

 

[WHPES]

Only needs a water softener if the test strip provided with the boiler says it does.

 

[lame plumber]

I use type B fittings as standard where I can as they are the most reliable.

are we talking flared fittings as opposed to comp and inserts?

 

[Fedup]

Thanks, and morning! Yes a Combi-Mate was fitted. I do not believe any analysis was done, as I have no read out. They came back on day 3, went to get an elbow for the flue, fired it up, showed me the controls and went.
:32:
Yes they are Oftec registered, Oftec confirmed that with me last week.

No CD 10 or CD 11 were given to me. And I have a feeling that they will be falsified.

My temper is running very short with them. They are only coming back because I didn't pay them the full amount, and I have persisted with the faults with the showers, and leaks.

When they arrive this morning, and I demand the CD 10/11. If they say they can't give them to me, am I within my rights to ask them to leave, and get onto Oftec and Worcester Bosch? As I say, my temper is very short and that is what I feel like doing.

 

[Koogatubac]

Aaa right, i wondered why are people using inserts with compression fittings on copper pipe lol yeah i just use type B. dont know any1 who uses the flared fittings anymore in domestic, havent even seen em since college

 

[Bunker]

Only needs a water softener if the test strip provided with the boiler says it does.

Yarp, sort of covered in my parenthesis:

(unless you naturally have soft water)

 

[Bunker]

Dear Fedup, they must give you a CD10 which is an installation completion report and they must either commission, or arrange for it to be commissioned, this will involve a small print out from an electronic flue gas analyser and the document referred to above, the CD11.
I don't know about W Bosch but most manufacturers supply these documents with the boiler.
If I were you, I wouldn't pay them any more atall until they have refitted the boiler according to manufacturers instructions, so that's the condensate and distance from the wall at least. If you have more than 8 or 9 radiators it would be worth asking if they calculated the water capacity of the house, many combi installations require an extra expansion vessel in the house otherwise again, there'll be no guarantee (this allows the water in the system to expand when hot). I'd also ask them to verify the cables are heat resistant, maybe if they are electrically qualified.

Did they flush the system out too? A reasonable indicator of their integrity there is to have a look in the loft inside the small water tank - should be nice and clean in there.

 

[Fedup]

Thanks Bunker. They did say they flushed the system through. As to the small water tank in the loft, there isn't one. They took out a big water tank, and the small water tank.

I am waiting for them to turn up, and I have contacted Worcester Bosch who are sending out an engineer today, as the fumes are bad indoors.

 

[WHPES]

Type B fittings are the flared fittings (well thats what I was always told) and that is what I use in domestic. Far more reliable than compression fittings. Rarely use compression fittings.

Inserts must ALWAYS be used with compression fittings or if there is the slightest movement in the pipe, it deforms causing the joint to weep. 10mm and under is soft copper not like Table X 15mm and above hard copper which is work hardened and does not deform as easily. Also there must not be any soldered joints in an oil line.

 

[Bunker]

They took out a big water tank, and the small water tank.

Oh yes, how very embarrassing for me...its a combi so wouldnt have one any more...

 

[Dannypipe]

Aaa right, i wondered why are people using inserts with compression fittings on copper pipe lol yeah i just use type B. dont know any1 who uses the flared fittings anymore in domestic, havent even seen em since college

As said mate, a type B is a flared fitting.

If you are using standard compression on soft copper - then you are supposed to use an insert.

Unlike many others, I always use compression fittings. They're a bit quicker to fit and I've never had any issue with them. I don't argue at all that a type B is probably better though!