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Discuss combustion analysis for noncondensing boiler in the Gas Safe Register Forum - Public Forum area at UKPlumbersForums.co.uk.

  1. aman1510

    aman1510 New Member

    hi,
    My portfolio job mentor doesn't do a combustion analysis on noncondensing combi boiler. His opinion was that combustion analysis is only for condensing boiler. As I understand from book knowledge, we have to do on the noncondensing boiler as well. So am I right?

    aman
     
  2. ShaunCorbs

    ShaunCorbs S. Mod Trusted Plumber GSR Top Contributor!!

    No you don't have to but most do just for peace of mind

    Just have to do it old school
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Agree Agree x 2
  3. MARTIN LISTER

    MARTIN LISTER Pembrokeshire Gas Maintenance

    Yes, the burner pressure or the gas rate is important.
     
  4. king of pipes

    king of pipes Trusted Plumber GSR Top Contributor!!

    As above burner pressure and gas rate all your safety checks , ventillation , flueing, saftey devices , i tend to stick the anylser in to it its a good way of checking the case seal for soundness. Cheers kop
     
  5. thereisawizza

    thereisawizza Plumber GSR

    I've had a lot of Baxi Solo2/3 boilers come up with horrendous readings after a stripdown service; rang Baxi who practically gave me a bo£&^cking for using the FGA! Said there was no requirement for it and got very stroppy when I accused them of having an inherently dangerous boiler as it produces too much Co!
     
  6. king of pipes

    king of pipes Trusted Plumber GSR Top Contributor!!

    I know bud only to well i had to go behind a service engineer who fiddled with the gas valve it nearly came off the wall when it came on the next day frighten the life out of the customer it states in their instructions it is not adjustable , but it is if your dont get it spot on the thing screams like a banshee ended up replacing the gas valve cheers kop
     
  7. Coheat

    Coheat New Member

    FGA can be used on none condensing boilers, I've used them for years. Old school boilers we used to actually have to drill a hole in the flue to stick the probe in!!!
    Use of compressed air and washing down the heat exchanger was quite common on such boilers as Apollo's but yeah, condensing or none condensing they can all be checked with FGA, after 20 years of using them I could'nt not service without using FGA, heck I even stick probe above heat ex when servicing old back boiler units just so I know what is being produced.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  8. Boilers

    Boilers New Member

    Makes me laugh when manufacturers say that, example say you fga 10 potterton suprimas and 9 burning perfect and 1 is of the scale.. There's a reason for that hence why I fill you should fga everything, yet there adimate you shouldn't on non condensing boilers
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. Gary80gas

    Gary80gas GSR

    If you do a landlords certificate whether condensing or not they all need fga readings.
     
  10. jtsplumbing

    jtsplumbing Plumber GSR

    If you do Fga on older boilers you will be surprised how clean & efficient some of them are after a strip down service, not has good as condensing units but up in the high 80s for efficiency
     
  11. Gotcha

    Gotcha New Member

    Basically the only difference between them is that condensing ones recirculate the hot gases to extract more heat, hence the cooler running flues. This process will not reduce Co and Co2 particles as a result, neither is condensing mean they have a freaking catalythic converter like cars do. Co and Co2 output will not change if you convert a non condensing boiler to condensing (dont try this). And fga's have a long enough hose for the gases to cool down before they enter the analyser, so shouldnt damage anything inside them.
    Your tutor doesnt understand how stuff works, and hes feeding you urban legends. Hes probably regarded as highly knowledgeable, experienced and "knows his stuff". Not.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Best

    Best Trusted Plumber Top Contributor!!

    I am not gas qualified, but just adding here that analysers have been used for years on non condensing oil boilers (as well as condensing) and no real difference.
    FGT is greatly higher on non condensing oil boilers compared with condensing.
     
  13. AWheating

    AWheating Trusted Plumber GSR

    You don't need to use a FGA on every appliance to do your job properly. What you must do is follow the appliances instruction, how many non condensing instructions required you to use one?

    I'm not saying it's not a good idea to use one but don't get into the mind set that's it's a must, even if your cert has a section for it.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  14. firemant

    firemant Plumber GSR

    No they don't. The forms nay have a box for FGA but that does not mean you NEED to do one.
    Anywat, how do uou FGA an upper floor boiler withour an internal FGA point?
     
  15. Atouchofgas

    Atouchofgas Plumber GSR

    Hang out the window with a long bit of 8mm pipe
     
  16. firemant

    firemant Plumber GSR

    The point is ,you do not NEED to do an FGA on a non condensor.

    Using a length of 8mm is actually barred by Burley fires, when checking their flueless fires, as the copper can react and distort readings.

    BG,when doing their poke and go, DO use a long extension where possible - bit it is not copper
     
  17. GrahamM

    GrahamM Plumber GSR

    A lot of employers (especially ones having social housing contracts) will insist on you carrying out FGA analysis on all boilers where it is possible and acting on out of range limits.
    A lot of older standard efficiency boilers actually state FGA action limits for servicing. eg. Ferroli modena 80e. And a lot actually provide a FGA test point.

    Carying out FGA analysis on all boilers regardless of SE or Zero Governed should be carried out regardless (where practical), in my opinion as it indicates a multitude of issues with fluing, dirty hex/burner etc.
    In my opinion it is backward thinking and irresponsible not to use this useful tool!
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. AWheating

    AWheating Trusted Plumber GSR

    Problem comes when an engineer uses the FGA to replace parts of the standard service.

    The number of engineers I follow that don't even take the case off and just FGA and go is very very high sadly.
     
  19. ccharliee

    ccharliee GSR

    I think using a FGA on non-condensing appliances is often used just to save time and customers money by not necessarily needing a full strip down, with a lot of older appliances I find if your ratio is low, a full strip down usually doesn't make a difference, I once went to a Suprima and everything was perfect, good flame, correct bp etc, went outside stuck my FGA in and the readings were through the roof, was caused by small holes in the flue which couldn't be seen, if an FGA wasn't used, I would never have found this.

    But as AWheating said people just use the FGA to essentially cut corners and for some unknown reason don't feel the need to check anything else.

    I have seen the BG guys using those before, they use silicone tubes and like a telescopic tool.
     
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