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Discuss Can you sign off an installation done by a non-GSR plumber? in the Gas Safe Register Forum - Public Forum area at UKPlumbersForums.co.uk.

  1. Masood

    Masood Guest

    • Like Like x 6
  2. thompsonbrown

    thompsonbrown Plumber GSR

    I know a hell of a lot of guys who do do it. Might be worth showing them this. Good post.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  3. bassmonster

    bassmonster Plumber GSR

    I've been asked many times to commission Boilers, I always decline.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. Riley

    Riley Plumber GSR

    I have to say I get probably two or three a week on at least three occasions the same guy has phoned me not realising he had contacted me already. Problem is some idiot will do it I just can't see why it's worth taking the risk If I make a mistake I've only got myself to blame
     
    • Like Like x 2
  5. newcastle phill

    newcastle phill Guest

    I think the pertinent point is knowingly.
    There is a very carefully crafted technical bullitin on this where in certain circumstances (no previous collusion with unregistered installer) it is acceptable and even encouraged to do so.


    Their reasoning is they would rather know it was safe than left so..
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. stevetheplumber

    stevetheplumber Plumber GSR

    if there hadnt been a defect on the work i wonder if it would have gone to court im still of the opinion that we all sign of someone elses work every time we do a landlords cert anyone here remove the boiler to check the fixings during a landlords cert? no unless it s your own work then you are declaring it safe when infact you dont know
    new build site work is never started and completed by the same people sometimes not even by the same company
     
    • Like Like x 3
  7. stevetheplumber

    stevetheplumber Plumber GSR

    thinking about this there should be a category for commisioning systems with a fitted by persons unknown box to tick then gas safe should become involved in the task of tracing them its in the interests of gas safety that rouge installs are inspected
     
    • Like Like x 7
  8. bassmonster

    bassmonster Plumber GSR

    A good idea, yet, at the same time I can it will encourage more illegal installs
     
  9. newcastle phill

    newcastle phill Guest

    Disagree. Simply a box to inform gas safe to possibly follow up and investigate with customer
     
  10. Masood

    Masood Guest

    I see where you're coming from but the requirements for commissioning and compliance certificate are much more in-depth than a landlord cert. Obviously it wouldn't be practical to do a full recommission every year, but we take on trust that the commisioning engineer did it right, so we are doing mare "maintenance" checks.
     
  11. mooey

    mooey Member

    Can t see the problem with it as long as its checked over properly whats the difference between that and doing a service.when you service a boiler you dont know if its been installed correctly until you look at it yourself.
     
  12. Riley

    Riley Plumber GSR

    it's a definite no no. When you service you don't scrutinise every single part of the installation for example is the gas pipe installed to standard where it disappears into the floor. I would assume there is nobody here that will go pulling up floorboards just to check the gas pipe run for example? Why not? Because you have to make a certain degree of assumption that the person who installed it knew what they were doing. If you are signing off someone else's work then you have no confirmation that everything has been installed to standard unless you demolish it and start again in which case what's the point
     
    • Like Like x 2
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2016
  13. spanner

    spanner Plumber GSR

    As above 102%. As Riley says. And guess if anything were to go wrong with a new installation Doing that it just means trouble. For me. I always make sure I'm on track. As to communicating I might have missed out on something myself, but at least i know I'll have piece of mind to have the task properly answered. As to being gas safe registered. It's not the "end of"! To me it's always a new beginning and keeping updated on a basis.
    As to servicing, had a few bad starts here and only made me think again I'm learning here.
    But a deffo no when or if it comes to that. I'd rather not be considered.
    At the least is having to check and doing a let by tightness test with tiny untraceable leakage.
    OR working with ALL appliances and not having enough due for undersized pipework.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2016
  14. Riley

    Riley Plumber GSR

    I knew someone would come straight back with an argument like that. Showing once again that the public are not informed by the body ie Gas Safe
     
  15. rpm

    rpm Trusted Plumber Top Contributor!!

    You can`t see the problem and I can`t see your gsr badge! Neither can I see the point in coming back to something from 2015 unless it concerns you directly.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  16. Alpha man

    Alpha man GSR

    You could do if you wanted to, but if it all goes tits up, the authorities will be coming your way?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. newcastle phill

    newcastle phill Guest

    This was in last months gas rag. Gas lad got hammered big time
     
  18. mooey

    mooey Member

    I d be happy to sign off work that has been done by someone else as long as I could see the whole installation and it passed all the tests in the mf instruction.A lot of people on here will have apprentice s that will run gas pipe work hang boilers for them pipe them ect there not gas safe registered its no different you trust them to do*it.if*I trust the person fitting it than I have no problem signing itoff.each*to there*own.RPM*I don t have to show my gsr badge to have an opinion on gas or deemed competent.
     
  19. Dotty

    Dotty Guest

    Then you are a fool.

    And yes you do to be deemed competent on this forum.

    I cannot begin to believe that you are happy to spend thousands on training and registration to cover the backside of an illegal installer who cannot be bothered.

    I hope you get caught.
     
    • Like Like x 8
  20. Chalked

    Chalked Plumber GSR

    Did you see this.

    Not worth doing.!
    image.jpg

    image.jpg
     
    • Like Like x 3
  21. joni os

    joni os Plumber

    It is clearly wrong to sign off someone else's installation, but less clear what comprises an installation. Where a gas fitter is GSR but not G3, and plumber is G3 but not GSR a system with gas boiler and unvented cylinder has all the potential for a demarcation dispute not seen since the heydays of Cammell Laird.
     
  22. Riley

    Riley Plumber GSR

    i'm not really having a go but I think that's a very ignorant opinion. And just promotes DIY gaswork Which is something as engineers we should be doing our upmost to stamp out.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2016
  23. IND_Nick

    IND_Nick GSR

    Couldn't agree more and also why let someone get paid for work that should be completed by trained, registered individuals!
     
  24. stevetheplumber

    stevetheplumber Plumber GSR

    as the name implies gas safe's main aim is safety and by effectivly banning inspections of unregistered installs i feel they are not
    scenario 1 lanlord has boiler fitted by joe blogs then moves in a family they ask for gas cert and landlord keeps putting them of but he is tryoing to get it done as he now realises his mistake before he can get it sorted both children in the family die of co poisoning net reusult two dead children landlord in a world of troubles and no one has earnt any money
    scenario 2 same as above but some one qualified has checked the boiler thoroughly found fault issued a riddor net result two children alive gas engineer has had a pay day and landlord still in a world of trouble because gas safe/hse are investigating him and hopefully the original fitter
    im much happier with the outcome of scenario 2 but it wont happen as gas safe dont follow up unless its handed to them on a plate or some one has died
     
    • Like Like x 1
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2016
  25. harrygashull

    harrygashull GSR

    Surely the best thing to do would be to make it illegal to service/comission unregistered work and then make it impossible for unregistered folk to get their hands on any gas parts without a GSR card?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  26. stevetheplumber

    stevetheplumber Plumber GSR

    weve had this argument before and as ray points out a big part of the heating market is housing associations and other companies that dont need registration as they dont fit the items
     
    • Like Like x 1
  27. mooey

    mooey Member


    Sorry its taken a while to get back to you been busy signing boilers off 32 to be exact 60 pound a throw.
    Well in eyes of the hsc and the LAW I am deemed competent and like people say on here if I get caught I will face the music.The biggest law breakers are gsr ripping off the tradesmen who pay there wages .all they are are legal con man/woman.maybe I am a fool but a richer one at that.who are the bigger fools anyway giving thousands to gsr so you can go earn a living
     
  28. joni os

    joni os Plumber

    Got to be a wind up . Most people want £600 to put their name to a moody install.
     
  29. Ric2013

    Ric2013 Plumber

    Hang on. I've rented out my own house at times and no Corgi (as it was) or Gas Safe installer has ever asked who fitted the boiler.

    So I fail to understand how Gas Safe means unregistered appliances are never inspected? Or is there some kind of national register against which all Landlord's Certificates are compared? If so, I can only assume my boiler was fitted by a registered installed because nobody has ever contacted me to say otherwise.

    How does the system work?
     
  30. Unregistered

    Unregistered Guest

    Gsr charge 360 odd pounds plus vat to register for the first time than a futher 150pounds for every year.if you lapse a year they than charge you the initial fee of 360 again. now if that not ripping trademan off what is.they are the legal crooks.when corgi was 1st set up it was free I don t begrudge paying some sort of fee but they are judt a greedy organisations.that are taking advantage of the people that keep them in a job.yes ee all have over heads and they do need to make a profit and they are making a massive one.if I can help someone out and make abit of money in the process I will its what gas safe are doing to us.i would never sign something off if I thought it was unsafe.if its against the law so be it most people break the law everyday one way or another
     
  31. Whyme

    Whyme Guest

    ye the whole scheme started free many many moons ago. if ya dont like the fee get employed. and if ya dont like the regs fit bathrooms. booosh
     
    • Like Like x 1
  32. Chalked

    Chalked Plumber GSR

    Mooney.

    I can see your point why you do commision others installs.
    But here's where what your doing is wrong!

    But you have done the training, pay your registration, do the paperwork, pay insurance and have the knowledge to do your job in the gas industry. You are making the problem of unregistered installers worse, because £60 an install is cheap to get your job signed off. What's the point of being registered??
     
  33. Chalked

    Chalked Plumber GSR

    American spelling,but hey ho!
    image.jpg

    image.jpg
     
    • Like Like x 8
  34. Riley

    Riley Plumber GSR

    I'm hoping it's just a wind up merchant. You'd hope that nobody had that blatant disregard for the rules that they'd be bragging about it.
     
  35. Dotty

    Dotty Guest

    Getting close to that now. This guy, with his blatant disregard for the rules is beginning to irritate me.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  36. AlexGas

    AlexGas Plumber GSR

    You won’t be able to check the whole installation without ripping the gas pipework off the wall!!!

    Please tell me this, you have a nice house, pretty wife and pretty kids… Are you saying you let some mug into your house to install a gas boiler and then some other mug to sing it off!? YES or NO?
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2016
  37. Dotty

    Dotty Guest

    Kind of academic now Alex. Unfortunately we don't have enough details to report him to GSR to investigate. Neither can we be seen to encourage him, by association or otherwise.

    His account, after a very brief discussion in the Mod Cave, has been terminated.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  38. plumben

    plumben Plumber

    Well you make a fair point there but theirs a difference, Im Not GSR but ive installed 30-40 boilers working under my old boss, but the difference is, i was taught how to install boilers and gas pipework by a professional and at the same time i was learning it all in college as well, also a trainee can only install gas appliances if there GSR person is standing behind them and checking all of the work they carry out
     
  39. stevetheplumber

    stevetheplumber Plumber GSR

    so when you fit a new boiler you remove all the boards to inspect the existing gas run ?or do you ask for the bench mark for the twenty year old boiler your just about to rip out ? goes back to what i said we all certify other peoples work
     
  40. Riley

    Riley Plumber GSR

    If I was doing an install I would because you never know what the previous person has done in terms of pipe sizing. I've seen it where the whole run was in 15mm up to about a meter from the boiler when it was upsized to 22mm then comically back to 15mm to go n the boilers gas fitting
     
  41. newcastle phill

    newcastle phill Guest

    I had one just like that the other day.
    22 through the worktop into boiler.
    Come the day of the install. Pull the cupboards out and 15mm behind backs and along and under floor onto the original 22mm line.
    Had to up size it all to 22mm except about 18 inches i couldnt get too. Due to brand new flooring.
    Fortunately all working pressures were fine at conclusion but deffo would not have been.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  42. Leezygeezer

    Leezygeezer GSR

    I have been asked many times, I usually say yes, it's £600. When asked why it's so much I tell them that I become responsible for the whole installation and I need to check absolutely everything about it.

    Not had any takers so far :)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  43. Leezygeezer

    Leezygeezer GSR

    Haha, more like a couple of cans of d & b and fish and chips, prices have gone up a bit you know :)
     
  44. Pssst

    Pssst Plumber GSR

    I can remember the days when Gas Safe didnt exist and there was no certification procedure. I dont have boilers on my ticket at the moment but have plenty of experience under my belt and wouldnt think twice about fitting/replacing my own.
     
  45. Gary80gas

    Gary80gas GSR

    Ive read the thread and still no clearer, I have never done it, but if I were to sign off an unregistered engineers work this would have to be against the regs. They have still worked on a gas appliance illegally and I would be covering condoning this and undermining my own registration.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  46. lame plumber

    lame plumber Plumber GSR

    if you carry out all the works required in the tb laying down the actions required, you wouldnt be seen to be condoning an illegal install, as you would have completely inspected all the gas lines replacing any you are unhappy with, and ensured that all the system meets the regs. To do this takes time and money, so you may well be having to charge the customer a fair amount of money to achieve a safe and functioning system. You will also have to ensure the plumbing is also correct and upto building regs standards as your going to be the one responsible for it in future, ie a year as you are undertaking to warranty this system now. So if you are doing all this and taking on the responsibility, you may well be looking at charging anywhere from £600 to over £1000 for your labour and any parts required. If you have done all of this and been paid the sums mentioned, you are hardly condoning illegal workers, its only if you go and sign off the paperwork for £50 you are leaving yourself open to gas safe chasing your tail down the line
     
    • Like Like x 1
  47. Gary80gas

    Gary80gas GSR

    Id want to take it off the wall and start from scratch and that would cost more then £50. Ive been approached with customers saying our plumbers gone sick will you come and finish it, im too busy to get involved with a mess.
     
  48. Ted808

    Ted808 Plumber GSR

    I've had one last week, the guy can't get hold of the installer, after an combi-combi relacement - (to be fair he said he did check him out- has a wedsite and that,) but hasn't answered his phone for weeks. Actually cust was ringing cuz boiler pressure kept goin up- so i went and had a look.. behold the old filling loop behind the cupboard was letting-by, so poor guy was bleeding his rads every day about a litre!!

    Boiler is not registered- I checked for him... NOW WHAT?
     
  49. newcastle phill

    newcastle phill Guest

    Advise customer and dont concern yourself.
    Its not your problem to resolve imho
     
    • Like Like x 1
  50. gassed up

    gassed up GSR

    I thought that the homeowner can pay the council b regs dept to sign it off, so I would imagine that they will just commission a gs engineer to do it. I wonder if anyone on here has been asked by the council to do one and if so what they did.
     
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