Discuss Can this be fixed? (Grant oil boiler) in the Plumbing Jobs | The Job-board area at PlumbersForums.net

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pewe

I have a Grant Euroflame oil boiler.
It is a boilerhouse model which is cased in an insulated cover.
I noticed a small amount of water on the floor below it and discovered that it appears to be coming from inside the casing.

Speaking to Grant they tell me that the insulated casing cannot be removed and the leak is probably due to corrosion of the water jacket - the boiler is only 6 years old.

They want over £800 for a new insulated unit (without the burner) which is as much as a new one costs.

My question is - does anyone have enough experience of these boilers to tell me if the insulated cover can be removed and 'repaired' if I can solve the leak in the jacket.
 
I'm replying to this as no-one else has - but please forgive my lack of (complete) knowledge. I service, maintain and install oil boilers so am reasonably comfortable with them. When it comes to the pipework inside I tend to walk away as it is all crammed in and when you undo a nut, the pipes hardly move. In addition, space is limited and you lose your knuckles.

I went to a customer's boiler the other day (a combi) and gave him the manufacturer's name and details as his boiler had a similar problem. I walked away from the problem as I could see difficulties with not buying the correct part, waiting for another part, another call out, etc then presenting a rather hefty bill which I wondered if he'd pay.

I appreciate 6 years isn't old but these things happen. (Like 2 year old cars needing new engines. It's not common but it does happen.) I feel £800 is probably a fair price. If it was me in this situation I'd buy a new Worcester (more expensive but more reliable in my opinion) and put it down to bad experience. Alternatively ask Grant for the price of a new boiler when we should expect them to last 10 years.

I fear repairing the leak will be next to impossible (hence the cost of repair).

Sorry not to be more positive.
 
Hi. I am not familiar with your particular boiler. However if the burner is a pressure jet. The boiler is a steel box within a steel box. The insluation jacket can be removed / cut off. Once you are able to have a visual inspection, you may find the problem can be cured. If accessible? even on site welding aint to expensive and may add a few years to its life.
 
Guys - thanks for taking the time to reply.

Dontknowitall - the assumption made by 'justlead' is correct - it is a simple 'box structure' with a pressurized jet burner. It has only four pipe connections (either side, top and bottom) for flow and return pipework.

The problem is that the 'box' is covered by a tin casing covering a layer of insulation.

Hi. I am not familiar with your particular boiler. However if the burner is a pressure jet. The boiler is a steel box within a steel box. The insluation jacket can be removed / cut off. Once you are able to have a visual inspection, you may find the problem can be cured. If accessible? even on site welding aint to expensive and may add a few years to its life.

Thanks. I am an just wondering what material is used for the insulation, and if it is 'stuck' to the water jacket (steel box) somehow or if the tin panels, which appear welded together to form the cover, holds it in place.

I think I appear to have three options.

1:-
Alternatively ask Grant for the price of a new boiler when we should expect them to last 10 years.
although I hold out little hope - but worth a try.

2:-
Get the name of the local Grant rep from the supplier I bought it from and ask him to come and have a look and see if he can offer me any suggestions/advice - although he may not be bothered

3:-
Try and strip off the insulated cover and see what's below. (But line up a replacement first, just in case it's not fix-able and I need to replace it quickly)
 
OK, contrary to the information given by Grant, when I drained the boiler and moved it forward I found that the cover is held on by 8 screws on the back.

having removed the cover and insulation what I found was an almost perfect metal box. Almost perfect because the front an sides were almost rust free (see picture B) but the back had extensive rust on it and the insulation was saturated.

On investigation I discover that there is a leak in a badly welded joint (shown by arrow in Picture A) which must have been leaking for quite some time to generate the amount of rust formed.

Of course Grant wash their hands of any liability, even though the fault is due to poor quality manufacture, as the boiler is 6 years 7 months old and their warranty is only for 5 years.
 

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a long time since your post, but I have a leak to on a Multipass 70/90, I am about to take mine out and see if it can be welded.

Did you re weld this joint and reinstall the boiler? If so, is it still going and/or how much longer did it last for?
 
Godsell
I only received notification of this post 10 hours after you posted it - although we have been in touch by PM since - and I received 2 notifications.
Seems a long time between post and notification even though I have set notifications to 'Instant Email'. :confused5:
 
Hi pewe,

Think because I am a newbie on this forum, my post had to be approved by a moderator/admin before it was actually posted, so I tihnk that would explain the huge time difference.

Thank you for replying to my PM and confirming the boiler, with this weld is still working 4 years later.
 
Looking at the picture of the original problem it doesnt appear to be a manufacturing fault. Looks more like an install in a damp environment or poor maintenance or poor install.

As for welding up a leak, it all depends on the age of the boiler. You might struggle finding enough decent metal on it to get a proper weld.
 
Looking at the picture of the original problem it doesnt appear to be a manufacturing fault. Looks more like an install in a damp environment or poor maintenance or poor install.

As for welding up a leak, it all depends on the age of the boiler. You might struggle finding enough decent metal on it to get a proper weld.

I am no expert, but the fabricator I took the boiler to said that in his opinion the weld around the plug had 2 spots where it appeared to have failed.
I'm not sure how better maintenance would have prevented the rust damage, I've never yet seen or heard of a service engineer take the cover off a boilerhouse oil boiler to maintain the casing, and it is designed for non domestic locations (ie a boiler house as the description of the model implies), and this one was in a dry environment. Also I'm not sure what could have been done to make it a 'poor install' with respect to the fault that developed.

Anyway - it was fixed for £15 and has not developed a problem since - so I'm happy.
 
Indeed you are no expert.

1 Condition of heating water will influence wear and tear on shell.

2 Being piped incorrectly can influence wear and tear on the shell.

3 Not attending to leaks can influence wear and tear on the shell.

4 Its a domestic appliance. Just because it says boilerhouse model means nothing.

5 See this type of thing all the time with mickey mouse diy installs.

I waa merely stating that you were incorrect in slating Grant for the condition of the boiler. Grant offer a 5 year warranty on the shell, as do most other boiler manufacturers. I would suggest that 5 years is ample time for a boiler shell to show signs of failure due to a manufacturing fault.

You say that your boiler has lasted for 4 years since the welding work was completed. Well done.
 
Leaking around the weld (thats what that recessed areas is, weld between inner and outer shells) is typical for a expansion related issue.
 
And boiler shells can leak around that welded join because of corrosion which is usually due to the system faulty. They normally leak at the base welding, but not always.
Boilers are only a bit of steel welded together & you will get the odd one, sometimes after a few years leaking in all makes. If the boiler appears to be not corroded inside the waterways, then a bit of repair welding might make the shell last for many more years.
 
How strange to see this thread open up again when I have just got home from a 4 year old Grant Vortex 58/70 with water pouring out of the burner air intake :)
Couldnt get much of a heavier boiler to swap out....I expect Grant will send out a new jacket for me but they wont pay the installation. This is why I dislike Grant.
 
4 year old then grants liable. Thought they offer 5 year shell gaurantee?
 
Yes but I think its only 2 years parts and labour plus 3 years parts. Or is that Firebird?..
 
When i went on grants course they said that a lot of the problems are undersized expansion vessels. Effectively making the boiler the expansion tank.
 
I spent 1 3/4hrs at that job the other night. Amazingly the installer had put a huge gate valve on the F&R from the boiler, so I could isolate it, open a vent and drain the jacket off. Then I drained the chamber out. I took photos before. At the end of this I emailed Grant with the photos and a description. Technical rang me and were happy with my diagnosis but quite rightly, had to send one of their own engineers out. I did have to argue that it was unlikely that the problem was the condensate being blocked "look at the photo mate" water coming out of the burner...clearly not running!!
Customers are 83 years old and the husband isnt well.
Grant man arrived Friday evening and was openly aggravated that the boiler had been drained. He demanded that the home owner (83) had the boiler refilled so he could see it leaking (all over her floor). He left with the instruction that they were to call back when it was leaking again - !!!!!!!! Words fail me...
 

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A word in their ear about the little hitler comes to mind, what was stopping him refilling the blessed thing. I try and be on site when the company engineer turns up, saves them being able to slag you off, means you might learn something if they are friendly and if they are bum holes, you can double park them and stop them running away until they have fixed it. Did that once with western power and southwest water, blocked the road till they both agreed to work in the opposite ends of the trench, meant I didnt have to dig the same trench 2 days running :) Helped that I owned the road :)
 
When i went on grants course they said that a lot of the problems are undersized expansion vessels. Effectively making the boiler the expansion tank.

If Grant made the walls of their shells from thicker steel they wouldn't have these problems.
 
Only times I've seen failed jackets on a Grant is due to insufficient expansion or corrosion (to be fair, that was external corrosion from a leak into the boiler case).

Oh, plus one in an industrial unit where some berk had clipped it with a forklift.
 
So today with the help of my plumber we took the multipass out and took a look, two images attached of what we found. This is a view at the corner where the weld has certainly failed, if the boiler was installed and standing upright, this would be the bottom rear, right hand corner, near the cold feed inlet pipe I think.


[ahh i cant attach images as a newbie]


You can see the obvious crack which is where two beads of the welding should overlap, but has failed.


I forgot to take further pictures after we had cleaned it up until the metal was good and shiny, further to the right there was another place, not in the image, where the weld was clear not 'at one' with the jacket.


So it has been welded, reassembled and put back in, time will tell now how long it lasts.


Also brushed on some Krust and then sprayed on some Fiat Punto Black paint over it too, Father-in-Law tells me I have some kind of cold galvanising spray in the garage, well I did not see/find that. Anyhow lets hope!


All of the locations of the type where pewe had a leak, the place where the inner and outer jackets are joined, were all completely sound it seems. Again time will tell.


I do find it disappointing that more people do not have a go at repairing these things, sure some will fail again quickly, but I bet many work for years after.
 
Godsell4, that's where the oil boilers normally leak - at the rear corner and often below the return pipe connection. It can be partly or fully to do with the return temperature being too low, especially where the pipes from the boiler have been badly fitted below the ground (between a garage or boiler house and the house) and have huge heat loss.
Standard efficiency oil boilers require the return temperature to be higher than modern condensing boilers - ideally in winter months keep the boiler stat to over 70 degrees so that the return levels out at a fairly high heat.
The welding tends to let go on the shell I find. You do tend to get corrosion at that point also. Often it is just luck and some boilers are better welded than others.
Welding repairs on the boiler might do well. I have got a few boilers welded and they lasted for years later. One I remember did 12 years afterwards.
 
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Tempting fate, but one year on and all is good.

Thanks for keeping an update. You could be lucky as some leaking oil boilers were just down to a poor weld. If oil remains at this low price it won't save a lot in actual savings, but maybe you should consider getting a Grant Vortex condensing oil boiler in the better weather if you plan to remain at the property
 
Always fit an auto bypass valve so you do not get too high a temperature differential between flow and return
 
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