Asked to install flueless gas fire

[GASMAN10]

Hi

Been asked to install flueless gas fire. Just wondering how many of you install these?

I gather that the customer would be using it alot in the winter.

Aware of vent/room sizes, but still concerned of the safety of these, if they are not serviced regulary.

Thanks

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

your right to be concerned they are sheds have fitted 10 focal points, 9 were overset so if you fit one its ESSENTIAL you carry out a gas rate,also be aware you need back round heating ie a rad

 

[villa_tom]

I am in total agreement with gasman, been asked to install a couple, but wouldn't touch them with a barge pole. A friend of mine fits them and has had the same issue as gasman and found they are overset.
Also you'd probably get more heat out of our blowlamps anyhow.

 

[tamz]

As gasman said make sure you gas rate it. Make sure the ventilation is spot on and for peace of mind stick in a CO detector.

 

[wnjswozo]

also explain about the amount of condensation given off,wont touch them with a barge pole

 

[CES]

I had one a few months back that was ok when up full, but was spewing CO when on low fire, My analyser almost went off the scale! I felt a bit awkward having to ID it seeing as how I'd only just installed it! It was a faulty regulator that wasn't set correctly at the factory. I have since ripped it out and my customer has a new flat screen tv in its place. I wont go near them again.

 

[drb]

I gather you have a gas analyser as they must be FGA on every occation you work on them, also it is no permitted to install them as a primary heat source.

The incedent a few years ago there is a very good Gas Safe update giving full details a very good read for anyone thinking of installing a flueless gas fire.

 

[madharris]

I would rather start up a motorbike up in my front room than stick one of them things in lol

 

[REDSAW]

I would rather start up a motorbike up in my front room than stick one of them things in lol

ahhh! that brings back memories,
unpacking a motox fresh out of the crate in the dining room, get it all built up and crank it for the first time on a sunday morning for a couple of hours whilst tuning it.
just in time for sunday lunch, got to be a 2 stroke though as 4 stroke dont taste the same.lol.

 

[madharris]

ahhh! that brings back memories,
unpacking a motox fresh out of the crate in the dining room, get it all built up and crank it for the first time on a sunday morning for a couple of hours whilst tuning it.
just in time for sunday lunch, got to be a 2 stroke though as 4 stroke dont taste the same.lol.

lol that is oh so true i may run off to the garage to grab a bottle or two of 2 stroke and hoof it in me old van see if i can get a hit that or a broke van lol

 

[metaldust9]

went to one with my workmate whole room and landing was covered in black soot customer had been covering the vent cos it was drafty ID,d it and explained why the vent was there, how there still alive i dont no i would never fit one full stop

 

[plumbster3456]

I don't tyend to fit myself but why are everyone slating these fires they are all ce marked and tested to european / brittish standards.
If the manufacturers instructions are followed and correct ventilation and commisioning of fire has been done then what is so wrong with them?
I would tell anyone who was having these fires fitted to definitely get them serviced at least once a year and to have a co alarm fitted.
My mum wanted one and i tried to talk her out of it but she wouldn't listen I fitted that one and only time .
I cored an air vent that gave the 100cm ventilation required and got her a co alarm and the fire has been fine.
I no that some horror storys have been reported about someone dying some where because the fire had a lpg injector fitted or something but if commissioned and checked properly then this would not have happened.

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

I don't tyend to fit myself but why are everyone slating these fires they are all ce marked and tested to european / brittish standards.
If the manufacturers instructions are followed and correct ventilation and commisioning of fire has been done then what is so wrong with them?
I would tell anyone who was having these fires fitted to definitely get them serviced at least once a year and to have a co alarm fitted.
My mum wanted one and i tried to talk her out of it but she wouldn't listen I fitted that one and only time .
I cored an air vent that gave the 100cm ventilation required and got her a co alarm and the fire has been fine.
I no that some horror storys have been reported about someone dying some where because the fire had a lpg injector fitted or something but if commissioned and checked properly then this would not have happened.

a young girl died because the fire had been overset in the factory,and the installer had not gas rated the appliance this happened in Merthyr tydfil the fire was a focal point nothing to do with wrong jets

 

[plumbster3456]

a young girl died because the fire had been overset in the factory,and the installer had not gas rated the appliance this happened in Merthyr tydfil the fire was a focal point nothing to do with wrong jets

so I am correct in saying that mi instructions were not followed as he never checked the fire properly so nothing at all to do with fire it was to do with lazy engineer.
not sticking up for these fires i am just saying why does every one hate them ? open flued fires can be dangerous too if not fitted and checked correctly

 

[plumbster3456]

well yes sort of to do with fire but could have been avoided if commisioned and checked correctly

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

your right but focal point(as far as i know) should have taken the rap as well

 

[wnjswozo]

apperantley the hse inspected 20 f/l gas from focul piont in there lab,found over half had faulty gas vavle settings.
these were tested straight out of box,
like a lot of the mass market made in china ,shipped over here and badged up,and as always we are ones who are fully responsable
for any gas safety issue,would recomend that no one touches them

 

[metaldust9]

plus how do you stop a customer covering the vent if its drafty no mater how you set the fire up,cover the vent and there ye trouble ,no ventalation first thing you learn in course /collage ventalation

 

[CES]

Just to point out it was a Focal point Piano fire I installed and then ID straight away when I noticed the CO readings at Low flame, it came straight out the factory like that.

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

Just to point out it was a Focal point Piano fire I installed and then ID straight away when I noticed the CO readings at Low flame, it came straight out the factory like that.

i have had 9 focal point flueless out of tune and have had to id all from new thats why i wont fit any more bloody things are lethal

 

[CES]

i have had 9 focal point flueless out of tune and have had to id all from new thats why i wont fit any more bloody things are lethal

I couldn't agree more!

 

[metaldust9]

on trust a trader theres been someone asking for someone to fit a flueless fire for about 3 weeks with no replys be the first it says lol i wpnder why?

 

[GASMAN10]

Hi

Thanks for all your advice, best to stay clear of them!!

Much appreciated

 

[everflow09]

i installed a focal point on thursday and when checked burner pressure it was under set. also fit co alarm - we tell customer its part of price when quote ( just add 15.00 to quote) everyones them happy including customer when they know there is asafety devise in place.

 

[Reg Man]

Don't give them to much bad press. They are 100% efficient. Trouble is the ventilation requirements are enormous, so 100% goes out the window, also must use flue gas analysis with ambient room setting as well. Gas rating pressure ect is what must do on everthing anyway. If you fit one make sure you allow as much time to carry out the testing as you do the install.

 

[metaldust9]

dont disagree with ye reg man just i wouldnt fit them personally after seing the few i have ,plus dont want the responsabilty of someone blocking the vent and them dying regardless of all the checks they need 100cm2 vent whos gunner put up with that kind of draft its a no brainer to me

 

[kirkgas]

dont disagree with ye reg man just i wouldnt fit them personally after seing the few i have ,plus dont want the responsabilty of someone blocking the vent and them dying regardless of all the checks they need 100cm2 vent whos gunner put up with that kind of draft its a no brainer to me

i totally agree with you, ok they are legal to fit, are CE rated, fit for purpose, and even if we do belt and braces checks and the customer later on blocks the vent it is still on your concience that someone was injured or died on a job you were on,

 

[pauls]

i have this evening been to see a customer and they have bought a fluless focalpoint and want me to fit it, i dont want to fit it but how do you tell them no and tell them the concerns about them

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

you wont have a problem as long as you read mi,s,do a fga and most importantly gas rate the appliance also quote for a co detector personally after finding 9 new faulty ones i am not fitting any more

 

[Reg Man]

So I take it we don't have alot of confidence in this type of appliance? Not wishing to upset these appliance manufacturer's, but the ball is in their court to convince most people on this forum that the flueless gas fire is a good appliance that a gas enginneer can install without worrying that there could be safety implications that will bite you on the bum.

 

[obseen16]

i always say to my customers "Yes ill fit a flueless gas fire but i will have to put a big vent in your wall first so youll end up using it to heat the cold air coming in through the vent" this usually changes their minds pretty quickly. and for the ones who have their hearts set on it i just over price the job so much that they would be insane to accept my quote. to this day i have never fitted nor will i ever fit a flueless fire.

 

[GQuigley67]

if they are so dangerous, then why are they on the market ?

 

[Reg Man]

They are not dangerous if installed and used corectly. Amount of ventilation is a bit on the down side, for you to stay warm, dry safe. Back to basic's, Products of combustion for complete combustion are water vapour and carbon Dioxide, so loads of ventilation, so fluless appliances including cookers have there place, but there is allways a pay back.

 

[metaldust9]

have you seen the size of the room you need for 2.8kw fire and the size of the vent 2.8 wouldnt heat up the dog shed never mind a room just a waste of money like i always say huge risk for little gain

 

[Reg Man]

Yer serious ventilation. What ever tickles your fancy.