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horseunderwater

Having been refused BG cover on CH system due to excessive iron oxide sludge, we were told £680 to get a powerflush by BG which we got told was a lifetime guaranteed one.
Hubby who is not a plumber, but has done various re plumbing on our system over the years and according to the gas engineer that we had out, had done an excellent job, has found that you can hire one of these flushers and operate this yourself.
So our big question is - does anyone on here have an idiots guide to operating one of these things if we go and hire one for a weekend? Or would it be better to try a chemical flush first? Money is very tight at the moment, so we need cheapest reliable method. Ideally I wish I could afford to have a magnaclean thing fitted.
Any help would be appreciated.:confused:
 
Well first of all,do you need a power flush,believe BG and everything requires power flushing,there is a thread on here
What is the problem with the heating
Is it a sealed system or open vented
 
Hi! horseunderwater

The hire people usually supply full instructions. But Google powerflush equipment and then look to see if you can download an instruction manual for it.

Try Kamco website, they make power flushers. Lots of info on there.
 
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the cheapest way is not hire one at all !
but put the mains onto the heating system and flush it through .
 
the cheapest way is not hire one at all !
but put the mains onto the heating system and flush it through .
Can I ask what you mean by this? Are you stating that we should somehow connect the cold water mains onto the heating pipes?
I just had to buy another pump today as OH managed to fuse the other new one, when he was trying to add one of those auto vent valves onto the CH vent near hot water cylinder.
Have also bought some Altech acid flush cleaner to try and get rid of some of the gunge. Instructions state to add and circulate for about an hour. Would you also suggest tapping the pipes to loosen magnetic residue? OH asks me to ask on here where best to add it into system?

Well first of all,do you need a power flush,believe BG and everything requires power flushing,there is a thread on here
What is the problem with the heating
Is it a sealed system or open vented
Not sealed. Will be trying some acid cleaner see other reply. Main problem is that there is loads of gunk in CH pipework and this is stopping circulation and thus heat.
 
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drain of and refill a couple of times then tell the nobs at bg it has been done as it all now runs clear.
simples.
 
to clean it take the rads off flush them through with the garden tap and hose , connect the mains onto the system run for 30 mins job done ! its stronger than a power flush
 
As dublin plumber says,power flushing saves time as ,time expensive but if you are doing it your self that is not a problem
A few add ons,when removing rads and taking outside make sure ends covered and if any black oxide water drips,clean up straight away,do not let dry
Once you have finished add a mild system cleaner and leave for 4 weeks then flush though again,stay away from strong chemicals on a old system
Also make sure there is a good flow through drain cock to allow flushing through,some times best to add a proper valve to increase flow this can be removed after wards or capped
To flush mains through you can by pass tank and connect ball valve mains to cold feed,always make sure drain is open when you open mains,make sure system drain is on a far rad,you do not want to be filling with mains and going straight out drain directly below,when flushing through close all rads except one,when water runs clear,open another rad and close the last,always open ran before closing last,this does not matter so mush on an open system like your,more for sealed systems,what you can do that helps ,is when you are flushing mains through,place thumb over end of hose pipe to stop flow through ,then when force on thumb getting strained,release, this allows a bit of pressure build up to help flushing through
Once vfinished and all is hopefully warm,do keep checking pipework,gittings and rads for any leaks that may have developed
Take your time,make sure rads and pipework flushed out well,after 4 week flush,remenber to add an inhibitor
 
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Like most jobs, 80% of powerflushes are pretty straightforward and canbe carried-out by a very competent DIY'er. However, the other 20% need some experience and knowledge of how systems work in theory and of how they are installed in practice.

A mains flush (sometimes called a hard flush) can remove most of the magnetite (very fine rust) from the bottom f the rads, but on it's own - particularly if the rads are left in situ - is unlikely to touch the stuff stuck to the rad walls.

Be very careful if your mains water pressure is any higher than, say 1.5 bar. Most systems should be fine, but you never know. (Most powerflushing pumps for domestic use operate below 1.0 bar)

One thing, if you have microbore pipework forget everything I have just said and get a profressional in. Naturally don;t use BG - their prices are way over the top.

If you have an older high water content boiler I doubt that you will need a magnaclean. Just get the system cleaned out thoroughly and keep it topped up with inhibitor (Kamco systemsafe is the best). Keep adding it every year.

Hope this helps, but if you need more info try Pritchard Plumbing & Heating Welcome

Best wishes.
 
The is a very straight forward procedure on the power flush association's site. Is it for a sealed or open vented system?
 
power flushing using mains water or a hired machine is quite easy but beware british gas still may not take your system on a contract - i have flushed systems for customers and bg have refused to take them on contract as they did not flush them and thats what they require -they want to make the money to cover the contract lol

ant
 
Forget British Gas. Their prices are way over the top. Your local established plumber / heating engineer will be more than happy to help and many will be happy to set up a maintenance contract if you really want one.

If the system is heavily sludged it needs a system cleaner chemical in for a dew days first to losen deposits or you are wasting your time flushing.
 
Forget British Gas. Their prices are way over the top. Your local established plumber / heating engineer will be more than happy to help and many will be happy to set up a maintenance contract if you really want one.

If the system is heavily sludged it needs a system cleaner chemical in for a dew days first to losen deposits or you are wasting your time flushing.

I would always advise to flush the system and then fit a magnetic filter then BG cannot say the system is sludged up.
 
Because the sludge needs chemcals to break it down so that it can be removed. Also its a good idea to do it when the system is warm.
Been looking at the guys videos and some of them are really good.
 
If BG wrote a book about powerflushing they would probably charge £700 for it
 
Photo0058.jpgPhoto0054.jpgPhoto0056.jpgPhoto0053.jpgPhoto0059.jpgPhoto0055.jpgPhoto0057.jpg Just a few pictures of us powerflushing a job the other day, we got some sludge out has you can see.
 
"Because the sludge needs chemcals to break it down so that it can be removed. Also its a good idea to do it when the system is warm.
Been looking at the guys videos and some of them are really good. "

I meant of course to add the system cleaner first to break it down before draining out and doing a mains flush. Tom's videos are magic. Tuddah for now (with Northern accent).
 
"Because the sludge needs chemcals to break it down so that it can be removed. Also its a good idea to do it when the system is warm.
Been looking at the guys videos and some of them are really good. "

I meant of course to add the system cleaner first to break it down before draining out and doing a mains flush. Tom's videos are magic. Tuddah for now (with Northern accent).

I cannot read minds LOL. I still think using the powerflush machine is a much better way.
 
is that the magnacleanse machine ?
Yes it is the Magnacleanse and I use it with Fernox powerfush machine, it does not work as well on it own as Adley sugest.

The meter is a Fernox TDS and it tests for Total Disolved Solids during flushing you tak regular samples and compare against the property's tap water untill you get the whole system to within 10% of the tap water. I have had it cleaner than the tap water before.

The original HP hoses have been discarded and replaced with a set of 25m ones, so now I can flush most systems from the pump valves (the best place) and have powerfushing equipement out side.

Lots of companies have jumped on the powerflush bandwagon now, yes they may flush the system but will it be done correctly and will they find the reason why the system sludged up in the first place? or alter the pipework so it never happens again?
I think not

Fushing an old sludged up system with main pressure water will not work properly, but it will of course remove some of the muck.

Kamco FX2 is the best cleaner bar none, and I have tried them all, x800 seems to be weaker now than it used to be.

Eco
 
look at toms top tips he has a video where he mains pressure cleans a system after britsh gas hve done it and fitted magna clean and he still gets dirt out
 
You also need a very high flow rate to move the sludge as it's metal, mains pressure flushing is subject to the pressure you have and it does not do the boiler very well. Using a professional with a good power flush machine does not compare to any other shortcut you find online.
 
You also need a very high flow rate to move the sludge as it's metal, mains pressure flushing is subject to the pressure you have and it does not do the boiler very well. Using a professional with a good power flush machine does not compare to any other shortcut you find online.
Totally agree
 
You also need a very high flow rate to move the sludge as it's metal, mains pressure flushing is subject to the pressure you have and it does not do the boiler very well. Using a professional with a good power flush machine does not compare to any other shortcut you find online.
Why is that? Mains pressure is typically higher than the pressure a power flusher produces. So if you've used the same chemicals, and can reverse the direction of flushing, what difference is there between mains flushing and using a power flusher other than with mains your constantly discarding the dirty water and replacing with clean while the power flusher is relying on magnets to get the sludge out of the water before putting it back in the system?
 
powerflusher generates a better flow rate than mains pressure typically at about 50L a minute, its the flow rate that makes the difference not the pressure
 
Well first of all,do you need a power flush,believe BG and everything requires power flushing,there is a thread on here
What is the problem with the heating
Is it a sealed system or open vented
puddle you're digging out BG engineers again! BG don't do that at all and BG do not refuse ANYONE a contract on the grounds they have sludge, quite the contrary. I as an engineer would point the issues out, because that's best advice, which I'd hope everyone would give. This contract would be refused due to a safety issue or a poor access / install issue. There's always an underlying thread of nastiness against BG engineers who tower over the vast majority of petty snipers . You're a moderator mate and generally do a fine job but you're letting your guard down
 
puddle you're digging out BG engineers again! BG don't do that at all and BG do not refuse ANYONE a contract on the grounds they have sludge, quite the contrary. I as an engineer would point the issues out, because that's best advice, which I'd hope everyone would give. This contract would be refused due to a safety issue or a poor access / install issue. There's always an underlying thread of nastiness against BG engineers who tower over the vast majority of petty snipers . You're a moderator mate and generally do a fine job but you're letting your guard down

Sorry but have to disagree here as the last few customers I have done CH work for all have said that they were refused a BG contract as they would not have their power flush done at an extra cost of £680-£800. Plus if they had the PF done by another company then it was still a no go. Its not the BG engineers who are at fault it's BG's policy that is being questioned here.
 
HSS hire out Pro Flush machines for £77.45, less £20 online booking discount, plus VAT.

An instruction leaflet comes with the machine, but manufacturer's instructions here:-

[DLMURL]http://proflush.co.uk/images/uploads/Proflush_Professional_Operating_Instructions.pdf[/DLMURL]

It's easy enough to do, being a boring and monotonous job, but if it saves paying BG that kind of money, then relish the saving.

If you have a vented system with a small water tank in the loft, make sure the vent pipe is capped, and the tank feed is plugged, otherwise you could end up with a very wet loft and soggy ceilings. Also, make sure he cleans the tank out well - I take it you will be supervising the work ;-)

But before you hire the machine I suggest you fire up your heating, get your radiators really hot, and feel for evenness of temperature across the front panels, particularly top to bottom. If there is no great difference top to bottom, ie. not much colder lower down, and no general cold spots, then a mains flush may be enough.

Either way you'll need some of this:-

Just been using it myself and it seems as good as the more expensive big brands...

http://www.screwfix.com/p/no-nonsense-central-heating-inhibitor-cleaner-2-x-500ml/82140

BTW, Help-link are cheaper than BG for full system cover, and they will actually service your boiler, whereas BG just do an annual gas check

Central Heating & Boiler Breakdown Cover | Help-Link



 
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powerflushing against mains cold
powerflushing has a better flow rate
powerflushing does not dilute the chemicals this is most important maybee the first rad will be ok with mains but after that all your cleaner will be washed out
 
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