A real brain teaser, its got me beat

[Derrick229]

No your not getting what where saying disconect all valves and pressure test all legs inside the house with the appliances disconected and all pipes stopended
Put a pressur gage on and put upto about 3 bar and give it an hour or 2
You have sorted that once the stopcock is off no water passing

Right, I open valve no 1, charge the line, check the pressure, then shut off the no 1 valve, the pressure should stay as it is, if there are no leaks, it will drop if there are

(I will have no 2 valve shut as well, I know there are leaks there, when no 2 valve is open along with no 1, the meter stops, it only happens when no 1 and no 3 are both open)

 

[Dannypipe]

This is a long shot, but are there any watering systems linked to this leg of pipe? These could be linked to a timer? Other than that I think you have all the suggestions you need. Pressurise the your pipework to a set static pressure with a guage attached, then monitor it and see if the needle drops. What a nightmare mate!!

 

[Gray0689]

Then there has to be some sort of leak on or after the 3rd valve what is attached after the 3 rd valve ??

 

[Derrick229]

This is a long shot, but are there any watering systems linked to this leg of pipe? These could be linked to a timer? Other than that I think you have all the suggestions you need. Pressurise the your pipework to a set static pressure with a guage attached, then monitor it and see if the needle drops. What a nightmare mate!!

You are telling me, its a blody nightmare, a leak with no sign

The pipe from no 3 valve goes straight to the bathroom, (it originally went into the loft, down the bedroom, under the floor, into the bathroom, but I have cut that all off now and removed it from the loft, there are open ends under the both both are open and discoonected )

no watering system

I am not sure why the pipe went into the loft, down the bedroom, and under the floor to the bathroom, when the kitchen is below the bathroom, but I think its the previous plumbers way of saving running new pipe and removing the tank and cylinder, using the cold feed from the tank to the bath and the cold feed to the tank, because the cold feed was 15mm and the feed to the bath was 22mm, BUT either way, this is now disconnected and has open ends

A new main to the bathroom has been run and its this bugger that is giving me the headache




There are just some jobs that are going to be a real pain in the bum, I have found it

 

[Derrick229]

Then there has to be some sort of leak on or after the 3rd valve what is attached after the 3 rd valve ??

Hah, you lazy bugger, I posted that all earlier, just a cold tap in the bath, cold tap in the HB and the WC (which is isolated and dry)

From valve no 3, there are 2 elbows, soldered, 1 pulled bend, 1 straight pushfit connector, 1 T which goes off to the bath, the T then goes off to the HB, then finishes with a soldered elbow to the WC which has an isolation valve on it, which is off

EVERY joint has tissue round it, which when I left on Saturday was dry

I have to leave the water on, a bloke is living in the Granny flat

 

[Plamber]

Hi, has you plumber in cylinder/boiler? could a blow off/discharge pipe be dripping?. ive seen new pressure relief valves drip.

 

[Derrick229]

Hi, has you plumber in cylinder/boiler? could a blow off/discharge pipe be dripping?. ive seen new pressure relief valves drip.

Oh, come on,read the whole thread, please

You may have seen pressure relief valves drip, but this isnt happening here

 

[Gray0689]

Hah, you lazy bugger, I posted that all earlier, just a cold tap in the bath, cold tap in the HB and the WC (which is isolated and dry)

From valve no 3, there are 2 elbows, soldered, 1 pulled bend, 1 straight pushfit connector, 1 T which goes off to the bath, the T then goes off to the HB, then finishes with a soldered elbow to the WC which has an isolation valve on it, which is off

EVERY joint has tissue round it, which when I left on Saturday was dry

I have to leave the water on, a bloke is living in the Granny flat

I'm a lazy bugger am I?
I'm just trying to help you out
sort it out your self pxxxk
Soldered joints then pushfit did you put in continuity bonding where you broke line with plastic and I'm lazy muppet

 

[Derrick229]

I'm a lazy bugger am I?
I'm just trying to help you out
sort it out your self pxxxk
Soldered joints then pushfit did you put in continuity bonding where you broke line with plastic and I'm lazy muppet

Yes, if you had read the thread from the start, you would have seen where the leak is supposed to be (the pipe JUST feeding the bathroom) the reason a push fit was used, was the pipe was near a timber joist and I didnt want it catching fire (I got a limited amount of space under the floor

No I havent put in bonding yet, I will do that when the leak is sorted, what is the point in putting on bonding if the pipe has to be changed ?

If I could sort it myself, I wouldnt be asking in here would I ?

I been a plumber for 40 years and have never had this before, has anyone else ?

I was calling you lazy in jest (I couldnt find a smiley face) sorry if you took offense

 

[Gray0689]

Well I did

 

[GreenArmy]

Derrick, does the customer know the problems your having? If not and your sure you cant find a leak then best just finish up and go. Although thats easier said than done. I would say your best bet is to do what has already been suggested and pressure test your section of pipe after valve 3. Try and get a good nights kip without thinking about it to much and let us know the outcome tomorrow.

 

[Derrick229]

Derrick, does the customer know the problems your having? If not and your sure you cant find a leak then best just finish up and go. Although thats easier said than done. I would say your best bet is to do what has already been suggested and pressure test your section of pipe after valve 3. Try and get a good nights kip without thinking about it to much and let us know the outcome tomorrow.

Oh, he knows, by god does he know, but his reply is, I want it sorted,

I'm on a price plus parts, so makes no difference to him how long I'm there, I cant finish off, I have to connect the kitchen up, then try and get paid (cant see him doing that if the meter is still going round)

So until tomorrow, when I get the gauge and test the pipe that the suspect leak is on, there is buggerall I can do

Thanks to all for your replies and suggestions, they really have been appreciated, if I have ruffled anyone up the wrong way, I apologise, no offense was intended

 

[Derrick229]

Well I did

Oh, well cant do any more than apologise

 

[Gray0689]

Ok cheers

 

[Derrick229]

Ok cheers

Now we are best mates again

Any ideas ?

A leak with no water showing, it beats the hell out of me

 

[Gray0689]

Look there is a leak somewhere after 3rd valve it might be small and going somewhere you can't see might not be your fault it could be a pin hole in pipe up might just be better roping it out and doing it again if that the easiest way

 

[Derrick229]

Look there is a leak somewhere after 3rd valve it might be small and going somewhere you can't see might not be your fault it could be a pin hole in pipe up might just be better roping it out and doing it again if that the easiest way

After this pressure test, that has got to be the next move, I'm hoping the tissue I have round every joint is going to be wet, at least I will know then and do something about it

It is brand new copper at the monent, do I run it in poly or more copper ?

 

[Gray0689]

I hope you get it sorted let me know how you get on

 

[Derrick229]

I hope you get it sorted let me know how you get on

I'll be letting EVERYONE know, I would hate anyone to have to deal with something like this again


Should have gone for an hourly rate, would have paid for Christmas somewhere sunny

 

[Gray0689]

If you can check all the pipe as it probably not your joints as you already checked them it's a hard one mate I do feel for you
If you change whether poly or copper it's your choice personaly I prefer copper
But nothing wrong with plastic it has it's place

 

[Gray0689]

We live and learn mate

 

[Derrick229]

We live and learn mate

After 40 years I thought I had seen it all, but this has me beat

I prefer copper, sweated joints myself, usually regard plastic and pushfit as a DIY thing (but the fittings are handy in tight spots or a loft with old style lagging (inflammable)

 

[Steve001]

Interesting...

long shot and I'm sure its been ruled out all ready, I have read all the threads quickly (six pages) so my apologies in advance... Mixer tap body allowing cold into hot water side of life? as I say a long shot

 

[Gray0689]

I use all all sorts in right place
Copper
polypipe
Loads of underfloor pipe
Pipe in pipe
But will always prefer copper

 

[Derrick229]

Interesting...

long shot and I'm sure its been ruled out all ready, I have read all the threads quickly (six pages) so my apologies in advance... Mixer tap body allowing cold into hot water side of life? as I say a long shot

mmmm, havent thought of that, but the cold tap in the bath has been off and not dripping into the container I have wired on tto the spout

 

[GreenArmy]

No, he means cold pushing through tap back through hot pipe which shouldnt be the case if your hot is off a combi.

 

[GreenArmy]

Sorry that wouldnt be the case because it would come out of spout. Still if you got isolation (ball'o'fix) on your bath tap supplies it wouldnt hurt to turn them off and check.

 

[Derrick229]

No, he means cold pushing through tap back through hot pipe which shouldnt be the case if your hot is off a combi.

Ah right, I follow, both the hot tap and cold are off

I'm grabbing at straws here (just hope there isnt a leak on the dam straws though :-( )

I really didnt think this topic would stretch to so many pages, sorry lads, you must have better things to do with your Sunday evenings

 

[Derrick229]

Sorry that wouldnt be the case because it would come out of spout. Still if you got isolation (ball'o'fix) on your bath tap supplies it wouldnt hurt to turn them off and check.

I hadnt put them on the bath or HB, was relying on the no 3 SC to isolate them (not often people change taps or do washers) there is one on WC, though, (that washer in there gets done more often I have found, but they have a standard BV in that)

 

[GreenArmy]

you must have better things to do with your Sunday evenings

Actually no, im on-call and its my birthday so i cant drink, and ive only had two jobs today, so im like a coiled spring ready to pounce. By the way, where are you?

 

[Derrick229]

Actually no, im on-call and its my birthday so i cant drink, and ive only had two jobs today, so im like a coiled spring ready to pounce. By the way, where are you?

West London, Northolt, the job is 15 minutes away, its a tip, they just upsticks and went on holiday, leaving me, a chinese kitchen fitter (who speaks no English) a house sitter who is Sri Lankan (and speaks no English) its a bloody nightmare

I'm supposed to be retired, I did all my on call stuff at LHR, 1 in 3, a call out every night while on call,

Not much of a birthday, but try and have a happy one

(I have got to the age when I dont celebrate, I commiserate)

 

[Derrick229]

Its not true how loud you shout at them, they still dont understand you

 

[Phil]

Derrick, is this a combi or open vented system?

 

[Derrick229]

A combi, but that is fed from SC 2, there isnt a problem on that side, its from SC 3 to the bathroom, just on the CWM which feeds just the bath, HB and WC

Just to reinterate (there are a lot of pages to go through, and rather than read the lot, here it is in a nutshell)

SC 1 feeds everywhere, SC 2 feeds the granny flat, boiler, sink in the granny flat, shower, WC in the granny flat AND the new kitchen

SC 3 feeds JUST the bathroom on the main house and just CW and this is where the problem is, the meter only runs when SC 1 and SC are open but taps are shut (WC isolated)

Okay ?

Clear as mud

 

[WaterTight]

should have sought an audience with the pope on this one.