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RHI Update

Discuss RHI Update at UK Plumbers Forums; Our support has significantly reduced renewable costs, paving the way for the renewables industry to survive without subsidies 2/2. https://twitter.com/DECCgovuk/status/663281997268299776 Doesn't bode well, guess they've already decided the outcome...
  1. #13
    Member Worcester's Avatar
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    Default Re: RHI Update

    Our support has significantly reduced renewable costs, paving the way for the renewables industry to survive without subsidies 2/2.
    https://twitter.com/DECCgovuk/status/663281997268299776

    Doesn't bode well, guess they've already decided the outcome
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  2. #14
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    Default Re: RHI Update

    Solar PV may be screwed, some hope for RHI:

    Leaked letter: Rudd admits 25% green energy undershoot, misled Parliament - The Ecologist
    Facing legal action, strong support for solar and wind, Rudd refuses to reverse cuts - The Ecologist

    And yesterday The Ecologist published a leaked letter from Rudd in which she admitted that the UK was set to miss its EU renewable energy target of sourcing 15% of energy from renewable sources by 2020 by 25%, a gap of 50 TWh (terawatt hours) per year.

    Questioned by the the Energy and Climate Change Committee today Rudd at first faced a stinging rebuke from its chairman: "We have looked at the leaked material and your previous statements to the House and our assessment is that whether or not it was your intention to mislead, there was indeed some misleading use of language ... so can we begin by bringing some clarity?"

    She then admitted the UK does not have the right policies in place to meet its EU target. The letter published by The Ecologist, stating that the UK was on track to get just 11.5% of energy from renewables by 2020, was accurate, she conceded.

    But she astonished MPs by denying that the cuts to solar and wind power had contributed to the UK's trajectory to miss its EU renewable energy target, and insisting that the shortfall must be filled by renewable heat, and by more biofuels in petrol and diesel:

    "It's my aim we should meet the 2020 target. I recognise we don't have the right policies, particularly in transport and heat, but we have four to five years and I remain committed to making the target."

    And she refused to consider any reversal of the cuts to renewable electricity from solar and onshore wind that she has already pushed through: "I think it would be a mistake to abandon heat and transport, they need to make their contribution on the renewable targets."
    That is if she manages to survive the calls for her resignation.

    She is of course an Osborne austerity hawk, and almost certainly placed into DECC by him to do his bidding
    Nostrum, JonG1 and missplumb like this.
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  3. #15
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    Default Re: RHI Update

    I read this early with the same optimism. Let's hope it's addressed correctly come April.
    Last edited by Nostrum; 10-11-2015 at 11:03 PM.
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    Default Re: RHI Update

    read a report saying the government were going to spend on overseas renewables too offset our carbon tax here...

    Not gona say it but they are 4$$$s......you guess

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    Default Re: RHI Update

    Looks promising for RHI until 2020
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    Default Re: RHI Update

    There's Domestic RHI money until 2021 ...

    Future of RHI secured post 2016 | Heating Hub

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/d...ng-review-2015

    Efficiency and Reform

    The government will increase funding for the Renewable Heat Incentive to £1.15 billion in 2021 to ensure that the UK continues to make progress towards its climate goals while reforming the scheme to improve value for money, delivering savings of almost £700 million by 2020-21.
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    Default Re: RHI Update

    The sooner grant funding for renewables is over the better.
    Terminated, finished etc.
    That's basically what a guy with a 50kw solar array was saying to me today.
    He seen the same system he had installed on e bay for half the price and challenged the guys who installed his system to match e bay.

    Well you can guess they just fobbed him off. None of them seemed willing to accept a cash bung to sign it off.
    The money comes out off poor peoples pockets. The very people who cannot afford the extortionate cost of renewables.

    Then those in the renewables industry can price on a level playing field with competitive opposition.
    We need getting rid of the middle men in the renewables industry who play no part with the end user. These parasites only got involved in order to feather their own nests.

    What we need is more shipping from china that can by-pass the burocracy and sell straight to the consumer and then see if it can stand on its own two feet.
    I reckon it can if the middle men sharks are removed.
    Last edited by Norcs; 11-12-2015 at 07:47 PM.
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    Default Re: RHI Update

    After that all you need is a decent price for exporting to the grid.

    Why is it a power supplier charges a customer 17p per unit for electricity and only pays 3 pence per unit when buying power from him.

    That was the situation one of our customers found him self in after he erected a 250kw turbine.
    He uses about 100kw him self with his business.
    He employed a solicitor to haggle a better price but got no where. Waste of time and money.

    So then he told the power supplier he had changed his mind and wasn't gonna connect the turbine too the grid.
    Guess what? They came to him cap in hand with a better deal.

    Same guy is only after installing a 50kw solar array on his roofs.
    He has three saws which need about 100kw when running.
    The largest saw has a 10 foot diameter blade.
    Last edited by Norcs; 11-12-2015 at 07:30 PM.

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    Default Re: RHI Update

    Quote Originally Posted by Worcester View Post
    The oversized biomass issue is one of greed, not design. So I wont go there..

    The 100% rule is important, what is causing the problems though is not design, as there is NOTHING stopping you designing a bivalent or 70% system under MCS. You can do it, you don't have to design the renewable system to deliver 100%. The heating system has to, so there is nothing stopping you designing bi-valent systems. We do it all the time.

    A right sized system for the client could well be one that the renewable system delivers 70% of the load, simples, then you just meter it for payment. European systems also usually provide much larger buffer tanks - the have a heat pump tariff for instance where the heat pump loads up the buffer / accumulator vessel so that ca then be used to heat the property.

    The problem isn't MCS or BS EN 12831, it's the RHI scheme that is driving particular designs and your sales staff.

    Note that more GSHP's were installed per annum in the years before the RHI than since its introduction.

    I agree the MCS standard could be better formulated, unfortunately it has been designed to enable idiots to design and install a system, and ensure that they don;t get any undersized systems like the ones that caused all the problems and hit the national press.
    This suggests that it would be acceptable, for example, to design a RHI-compliant system with an AW heat pump supplying < 100% of the design heat loss power in conjunction with an existing oil-fired Rayburn (providing convection/radiant space heating plus DHW) & would need to be metered to receive RHI payments.

    If that is that case, the 'adjusting' figure for sizing the AW heat pump would be the figure used to calculate the power of the Rayburn - as there don't seem to be any possibilities for adjustment with the other variables (room heat loss is as calculated, outside design temperatures are as per the table, etc).

    It looks like it might be possible to adjust the base temperature for the Degree Days figure - but that only affects the energy figure so cannot be used to influence sizing?

  12. #24
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    Default Re: RHI Update

    1) We need to ensure that at the design temperature, 100% of the heating needs are met, bey either a single or a combination of heat sources (bi-valency)
    2) We can then design a bi-valent point, depending upon the sophistication of the controls, as the heat load can actually vary and is almost NEVER the load that is calculated. The control type can be:
    a) Alternative : If the outdoor temperature is below the threshold value, than we stop the heat pump and we start the gas/oil boiler or another energy source
    b) Parrallel: If the outdoor temperature is below the threshold value, than we start the gas/oil boiler or another energy source, and Hp + gas/oil boiler works together
    c) Boost / Parallel: If the outdoor temperature is below the threshold value, than we start to monitor the buffer tank / flow temp. If the buffer tank is over a specific period below the buffer set temperature, than we switch on the gas/oil boiler. This means we switch on the gas/oil boiler related to the demand.

    The heat pump will be metered so that only the correct RHI is paid

    Suggest to discuss this further start a new thread
    Last edited by Worcester; 04-01-2016 at 10:45 PM.
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