Search the forum,

Discuss How easy is to add another rad to this room please? in the Plumbing Jobs | The Job-board area at PlumbersForums.net

Status
Not open for further replies.
Messages
130
Good afternoon

I have 10 radiators running off my Ecotec Plus 360 system boiler. I am looking to add another rad to a bedroom so there are 2 as the one on its own is not enough. I believe the boiler should be big enough as another website said it can take 10 -14 rads.

Its a real pain as I will have to lift newly fitted reclaimed pine boards which have been sealed and possibly the skirting.

Just wondering how many boards would have to come up? Is it possible to run copper pipes from where they connect to the rad in the picture?. I want to put another rad in next to the one showing (behind the mirror on the wall under window)

Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated

Thank you
Betty:)

IMG_2380.jpg
 
Wouldn’t just tee into the existing pipes it needs to go back to larger bore carcass pipework and have an individual feed. If you’re concerned about your floor etc then it may be easier to go through the ceiling below then it’s just a patch and plaster job. Might be advisable to get a heating engineer to properly Calc your total property heat loss as those cast iron ones can sometimes use more heat than standard convector style rads
 
Thank you Riley but why would I need to have “calc loss” calculated. I don’t want to change the design of the rads you see.
Loft conversion upstairs with boards and carpet
 
why not just get one same style same length but taller and get one with feet so its floor mounted so you use same pipes no holes and neglible decorating
 
That's a really good idea, but it would have to go where the mirror is. Although it would work it would spoil the look of the room as it would detract from the 3 beautiful sash windows. I really want to keep it looking as traditional as possible...:rolleyes:
 
the rad you see was the biggest Myson do to fit in space under the windows. I recall looking at others at the time of installation but there was nothing bigger.....
 
Thank you Riley but why would I need to have “calc loss” calculated. I don’t want to change the design of the rads you see.
Loft conversion upstairs with boards and carpet
I think you’re missing my point. If you install another similar radiator it might be wise to ensure that the boiler CAN in fact deal with the extra load as some cast rads use a surprising amount of heat. Why can’t you go from below?
 
yes I suppose could go from below but either way it will muck up the Victorian cornicing in either room :(
 
yes I suppose could go from below but either way it will muck up the Victorian cornicing in either room :(
May not have to depending on accessibility and if you’re lucky with the positioning of the larger carcass pipework. I’d get a couple of quotes. It’d definitely be the cheaper and probably less intrusive/destructive method. Just cutting out a bit of plaster from the ceiling and investigating.
 
the rad you see was the biggest Myson do to fit in space under the windows. I recall looking at others at the time of installation but there was nothing bigger...

You should be able to buy a four column (139mm deep) version of the radiator size you have (L xW) to replace it and increase output. Stylistically identical albeit a little deeper (38mm) without the need for intrusive work, do check heat loss calculations to ensure you don't seriously under or oversize and your boiler is up to it.

Screen Shot 2018-02-05 at 01.04.27.png
 
Last edited:
I would measure the surface temperatures of your existing radiator (at each end) when it is fully on to make sure it is receiving adequate flow. Has the system been balanced?

I would think a floor standing 4 column rad the same length would deliver a lot more heat providing pipework is delivering enough flow.
 
The screen shot is from the Myson catalogue...

http://www.myson.co.uk/static_files/my/media/downloads/30222_Column.pdf

There is also a heat loss calculator which you should be able use to calculate the size of rad you require, you can just google the u value of materials if required. Assuming your bedroom rad is (1800 x 300mm) the difference between the three and four column version is about 500w. If that's not enough you might be able to (as suggested earlier by Gasmk1) fit a taller rad (450mm?) of the same width which would give you just over an extra 1000w, how tall is your skirting?
 
Hi gmartine
Thanks for coming back to me. Please see the attached photo which shows the calcs for rads in my house. I have a system boiler ecotec plus 630.
I am not sure if the 450mm rad would have enough output either as this is the size i had put in for the sitting room and the bedroom is bigger with 3 sash windows. (column e is windows). Also not sure if would look strange if I could get it under window as from the sill to floor is 54.5cm and cill height is approx 20 cm.
Betty

IMG_2389.jpg
 
According to your calculator the rad is sized correctly, are the rest of your rooms getting warm enough? If the thermostatic radiator valve (TRV) is set on max is the rad getting very hot and the room still not warm enough? Feel for the hottest pipe going into the rad, is it very hot and rad isn't?

Bear in mind this bedroom is effectively being insulated and heated from below (living room/dining room) and above (loft bedroom) so you can't compare the room's heating requirements so readily or by size alone. If the rest of the house is heating up fine the TRV might be faulty or the system might need balancing. If you do feel you need a larger rad the four column version of what you already have should be enough unless there has been a mistake in the calculations. I find it difficult to believe you need double the output of what's been calculated if the rest of the house is fine unless there has been a mistake, but do try another calculator as they can be hit and miss as well as confirm your original calc's.
 
Last edited:
IF the TRV is fine and the rad sizing fine and the rad just isn't getting hot enough the rad MAY have been fitted the wrong way around. Done it myself on the odd occasion but please exclude other possibilities first.
Screen Shot 2018-02-08 at 15.31.08.png
 
Thanks ver much gmartine, ok will check all this, but I am pretty sure rad heats up ok as was very hot when I touched it last. The room has 3 large sash windows. Could this be the reason I wonder? The rads in whole house heat ok, but other rooms have slightly larger size rads as there was the room on the wall to do so.
I am heating sitting room below all the time as well as loft but would like to turn sitting room rad off as we hardly use room and not sure the extra heat below is helping.
Will check calcs again and what you said
Thanks again
Betty
 
The room has 3 large sash windows. Could this be the reason I wonder? The rads in whole house heat ok, but other rooms have slightly larger size rads as there was the room on the wall to do so.
I am heating sitting room below all the time as well as loft but would like to turn sitting room rad off as we hardly use room and not sure the extra heat below is helping.
Will check calcs again and what you said
Thanks again
Betty


The calculations indicate the rad is the correct size, that's why I asked if the rest of the house is heating up okay. Are the sash windows single or double glazed? Do you have the same style window in the other bedroom which is heating up okay? Double check your calulator and try another and see if you get a similar result. Just turn down the TRV in the living room rather than off.
 
Last edited:
Ok so I have reviewed my dimensions to the bedroom which are attached.

The room is double glazed with wood window frames but not Fensa approved so wouldn't say it's the greatest double glazing perhaps.

Room also has an old fireplace with damper which is like a lid that covers the chimney.

Re windows I have taken worst case scenario and used figure with wood frame rather than just glass pane because of any possible draughts etc

It appears according the calcs using the plumb nation calculator that the radiator in situ should be sufficient. But its not, despite being red hot, top and bottom and both pipes.

I've also used the Myson heat loss calculator which I believe suggests I would need more output if the windows were classed as single glazed. There is a heated room above and below.

I saw that Myson state you can have a radiator made to your dimensions:

http://www.myson.co.uk/static_files/my/media/downloads/Column_Full_Tech_Guide_-_Jan_2015.pdf

which I was not aware of, so I suppose I could have one that is 350 or 400mm deep x 1800mm either 3 or 4 column, but worried will be expensive .... and still not sure what I really need!..so think will have to ring them

Re the boiler I have an Ecotec plus 630 but I cannot find on Vaillant's website how many BTU's it supports. Does any one have the link please?

Many thanks all!

Betty

IMG_2395.jpg
 
630 does 30kw
 
Thanks ver much gmartine, ok will check all this, but I am pretty sure rad heats up ok as was very hot when I touched it last. The room has 3 large sash windows. Could this be the reason I wonder? The rads in whole house heat ok, but other rooms have slightly larger size rads as there was the room on the wall to do so.
I am heating sitting room below all the time as well as loft but would like to turn sitting room rad off as we hardly use room and not sure the extra heat below is helping.
Will check calcs again and what you said
Thanks again
Betty
Hello Betty,

Can you check that the sash windows are actually latched closed correctly. Sometimes the catches are misaligned. They should pull the windows together and hold the draught seals against the sash frame. If they are out of alignment they push the windows apart, and away from the draught seals. This will cause a major draught. If you aren't sure post a picture of the catches in the closed position. I have seen this on many occasions.
 
Despite the damper if the fireplace isn't being used block it up and tape up any gaps.

I'd still go with a four column version of the size you have which appeared to be available off the shelf. That'll give you an extra 500w around 40% more output which should be enough as well as avoid any intrusive work. If that rad is a special order I suppose you'll have to weigh up the cost of adding another 500w rad + work and having that one made as a regular rad swap.
 
Last edited:
I spoke with Myson. They said the mean water temperature is important on the heatloss calculator and said they thought mine was 58.5 degrees

They calculated I needed a radiator that gave out 1601.20 watts for that room. However this is only an extra 374 watts!

I could get the 4 column 36SEC4040 off the shelf as it is 1640 watts but I am worried this is not enough as the sitting room below which is same size has a rad which is 1818 watts. I know the bedroom is on first floor but it has three large windows.

Only other two options are to have a bespoke rad made which has 3 columns but is 400 mm in height (100mm taller than the current one) giving out 1639 watts or a 4 column, again 400mm in height which will give out 2102 watts.

At least with all three options it would fit using the current pipes.

To accommodate the extra depth of the 4 column rad do you know if the copper pipes either end would have to be brought forward from the wall please? As I think it would mean I would have to have larger holes cut in the floor.

I am also not sure whether the 400mm would look strange in such a small space. It seems that either it is either going to look strange as it is deeper and will stick out more from the sill or it will look strange because it will be too tall under the sill! :(
(See current rad where it fits nicely )

I am worried I could go to expense of changing it and it still won't give out enough heat !
Betty

IMG_2380.jpg
 
It's only 38mm (1 1/2") extra width if you go for a four column, the pipes will need to be altered to accommodate the difference in rad centres unless you want to dig up the floor boards.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Reply to How easy is to add another rad to this room please? in the Plumbing Jobs | The Job-board area at PlumbersForums.net

Creating content since 2001. Untold Media.

OFFICIAL SPONSORS

OFFICIAL SPONSORS

Back
Top
AdBlock Detected

We get it, advertisements are annoying!

Sure, ad-blocking software does a great job at blocking ads, but it also blocks useful features of our website. For the best site experience please disable your AdBlocker.

I've Disabled AdBlock