Help - Gas safety cert fail - Flavel Coal Effect Fire

[chr15p1]

Hi can anyone help.

My gas fire has just failed a gas saefty inspection prior to renting my home out in a weeks time. It has failed on two points although only point 1 is documented on the safety sheet.


1/ No additional ventilation. Gas man said an additional air brick needs to be installed near to the fire.

The gas fire is situated in an inglenook fireplace and has an approx 2" gap from the wall at the back. A two brick sized permanent air brick is in place behind the fire and there and on the outer wall.

I don't understand why another vent is required as quickly looked on google and found that a 5sq cm capacity is required for every KW over 7KW. Again a two brick vent is about rated to ~30 Kw?

If another air brick is required does it need to be situated in the inglenook fireplace as it will be in plain view (don't want to mess up nice brick work) or can it be positioned say a couple of metres away in the main room walls?


2/ Pilot light has no cut off. Gas man said a whole new pilot light unit is required!

I do not understand this as it has a push and hold button to allow gas to the pilot light (if blown out). So if out, hold button, light pilot light gas and wait a few seconds and then release finger from button and pilot stays alight. If you blow the pilot light out then the gas stops automtically. I beleive it has a thermocouple next to it to shut off if the pilot light flame extinguishes (small ceramic type thing next to gas).

Never had a problem with the pilot light even when serviced by another plumber a year before.



Fire is:
Flavel 8.8Kw
Approx installed in early 90's
Large gas coal effect cast iron with glass doors
Has 7" or 9" flue hidden in conopy to roof.


Can anyone advise me if this sounds right what I'm being told.


Many Thanks

Chris

[gas man]

for a start ventilation can not be in a builders opening,as you say its behind the fire 7kw rule does not apply as your fire is a d.f.e[decorative flame effect]and requires 100cm2 of ventilation,as to your pilot assembly need more info on why its failed you cant have a vent behind the fire and one in the wall either this contradicts gsiur

[migoplumber]

as a landlord - lose your gas fire.
as an engineer, as said above no vents behind the fire, post exact model and circumstances please

[Assessor Gas]

Dig out the manufacturer's manual it will be clear on ventilation requirements. If DFE and no manual 100cm2 needed directly to outside air. The fireplace forms a lead to the flue and a vent their is an absolute no no.
The Flame failure is retrospective. If it was not designed with one then retrospectively so long as it passes all its other tests, it can remain, but good advise to upgrade to flame failure for yours and the tenants safety. As another mentioned, if you have a radiator in there i would consider removing it and installing something electric. They can look nice too, and if installed by a qualified electrician and certified NIC Certificate, you are protected. Hope this helps (Find the Manual - Or download it) The engineer needs it when he attends.

[Mbear]

Dig out the manufacturer's manual it will be clear on ventilation requirements. If DFE and no manual 100cm2 needed directly to outside air. The fireplace forms a lead to the flue and a vent their is an absolute no no.
The Flame failure is retrospective. If it was not designed with one then retrospectively so long as it passes all its other tests, it can remain, but good advise to upgrade to flame failure for yours and the tenants safety. As another mentioned, if you have a radiator in there i would consider removing it and installing something electric. They can look nice too, and if installed by a qualified electrician and certified NIC Certificate, you are protected. Hope this helps (Find the Manual - Or download it) The engineer needs it when he attends.

why remove a radiator? What's this got to do with anything?

As for your engineer, if he's told u need a vent in the catchment area(area behind fire) then he's either at it or clueless. You most likely will need a 100cm2 vent in on an outside wall in the same room as the fire to provide the additional airflow that dfe fires require. The pilot issue is as said above retrospective if anything, wouldn't like to comment too much on it without Reading instructions & having a look at it myself though.

Is this fire located in a bedroom by any chance?

[Assessor Gas]

RADIATOR

Without being too obvious - !! If there is a radiator in there your tenants may not actually need another source of heat (Ie Outdated Gas Fire). I was considering that perhaps the property may not have CH and thats why there is still a gas fire there.

[Bernie2]

I suppose you could also get a flue cross flow problem with the vents being in the inglenook.

A flue has to be warm to work properly i.e. hot gas rising drags other gas after it.

Imagine the Winter, cold air could enter through the vent and cool the flue.

The room itself and the rest of the house are warm.

Somebody goes the upstairs toilet and opens the window or leaves the cock loft lid off or the bedroom window open.

Yeoww!! A nice warm internal flue route.

Out the room door and out the bathroom or bedroom window or into loft!

Come on you flue gases lets go this way its nice and warm!!. Not really what you want.

Incidentally a warning about this very thing was circulated by CORGI.

An ODS is a good idea on any fire. Its only a little flame like device that goes out if it gets starved of oxygen and cuts the gas supply off to the fire. Must admit though although they are good idea they can be a pain if they keep getting fluff in them.

But as Assessor Gas says its not necessarily necessary, to have a flame failure device let alone an ODS but advisable for the reasons he mentions.

Perhaps if there is one, it is a bit slow and does not shut off quick enough if at all. They do go up the spout and are supposed to close in a given period.

Good Fortune