Attention..AJS Heating!!!!

So repetitive on the job learning is not the way to go eh, why do you think they 'bash bits of lead' for months at college, have you learnt nothing ?
I would go learn to be a GP if I were you , cant be that hard, and easily done for you eh , as you can drive a big lorry LOL.
As for dinosaurs , maybe, but lets not forget they ruled the earth for years, eating all the less able critters....go ahead, do your fast track re-training, and then regret finding out you know less than you thought when you walk into that house.

Of course the problem with dinosaurs is that they may have been dominant, but are now dying out fast!

Apprentiships into a secret society of tradesmen is also outmoded - we need to spend less time doing funny handshakes and brown nosing. Lets face it most 4 year apprentiships envolve at least 3 years of making tea . . .

What you old fosils want is a cheap form of slave labour. Fast track will become the way in the future mark my words . . .

ha!

[buster]

Joebaxi, Please go down to your local college and find out what a modern plumbing course involves. I would have thought that anyone thinking of spending £5000 on a course would have got off their backsides, done a little research and looked at the alternative ways to train and what most companies in the plumbing industry would be looking for before employing someone.Then perhaps they could take a more qualified decision. But if sending off a large check is the easiest option, then why bother researching what for most people is a life changing decision. Just to help out and add a little fact to this thread I will list what a college course for a 17 year old involves;
firstly, They will have to attend college for a full year every day, monday to friday. Where he or she will have to complete all the practical work and exams from a N.V.Q. 2 course in one year. They will have to study and sit 12 exams and must achieve a pass mark of 60%. once they have completed this and have kept within the standard set by the college. They get nothing! A big fat zero! Then they are allowed to come back the next year and if they can find employment in the plumbing industry are then put through the course again to achieve a N.V.Q. level 2 but must achieve a pass mark of 80% over 13 exams and complete 12 units of practical work that is accessed under exam conditions and have a tolerance of + or - 2mm and have 5 on site visits at your place of employment. If they can not find work in the industry they can only sit the level 2 certificate in plumbing and will have to do their N.V.Q. 2 at a later date. when they have finished they will have a;
level 2 certificate in plumbing
level 2 NVQ in plumbing
level 2 NVQ in mechanical engineering services
Then they can go back to college and study for another 2 years to achieve their N.V.Q. level 3.
If you go back to college as a mature student it's much easier because they know you want to become a plumber and are making the decision for yourself. you can do the same course on day release or block release but you will have to meet the same high standard's that the 17 year old does. This is where your life experience comes in to it and the lecturers expect you to take a lot more responsibility for your own course and you set your own deadlines. But if you miss them you fail! You can only do a level 2 certificate in plumbing on a night course over two years. most employers know the system and short cuts so you won't pull the wool over there eyes. But that doesn't mean you won't get your chance at one time or another. It's a bad time in the industry at the moment so you have to keep plugging away. If you want to know how much a employed plumber is paid and the sort of hours they works, take a look at the J.I.B. website (joint industries board) as most companies stay close to this. But as in all industries if a unscrupulous employer can get someone to do a job for a lot less money because they took a fast track course but are perfectly capable, he will!

P.S. If you don't bash lead about on a ten week course how will you know how to safely handle and identify what type (cast or rolled) or code (3 to 8) of lead your dealing with. How will you be able to follow any plans if you don't know if the lead is to BS12588. How will you know what is the correct code you will need for a back gutter or soaker's? Or what code you need for bossing? how will you know about the characteristics of lead? Malleability, thermal movement, durability, patination, fatigue and creep, rate of corrosion and fire resistance? How will you know that the chemical composition of lead is governed by BS1178 which controls the grain structure? How will you know that lead has a high coefficient of expansion at a rate of 0.0000297 for 1 deg. centigrade? How will you know that lead is incombustible, but melts at 327 deg. cent.? How will you know how to anneal lead? How will you know about bossing techniques to repair or replace sheet lead? How will you know how to fusion weld lead? How will you know about capillary action and that water can climb 62mm with just atmospheric pressure and that what the tenant is telling you is a leak when it's incorrectly fitted lead? And most importantly how will you know that lead is poisonous to you and the residues on your overalls can be poisonous to your family and that lead can build up in your system and cause severe illness even death if handled incorrectly! Ho, and just in case like many you tell yourself that I'm not going to work with lead, Its not wise to go in to a trade and rule out working with a material that can earn you a lot of money in the business also The Latin word for lead is, Plumbum which is where we get the word plumber!

[fuzzy]

Originally Posted by mehera

They dont want us to learn cause we will nick their customers more like!

Apprenticeships should be wiped out like the dinosaurs man!

Oh look another dinosaur 'yawn!'

bitter,

why is this man so bitter?

because he wasnt clever enough to get an apprenticeship? and now wants to rubbish them and do a 6week course

this is the man who runs a ltd company and is going to have a web site for all the ccc's to learn the tricks of the trade.
the only place he'll make it big is rogue traders.


this is all i have to say on the situation.
YouTube - Supertramp - Dreamer (live 1974)

[Mushybees]

Hello, i've been reading the forum a while but I believe this is my first post.

I'm retraining. I'm 25 now and i've been doing it for 2 years and it's been hard with a mortage and other outgoings though I was fortunate that we haven't started a family yet. Were we to have had kids at the time I wouldn't have retrained.


I attended college 3 days a week for my first year. On the back of that I was able to find an apprenticeship which i've been doing for a year.
I've completed my 6129 level 2 and working on my NVQ 2 folder now. In september i'll be returning to tech one day a week to do my 6129 level 3.
The year after i'll be in a position to crack on with my nvq 3 evidence.
That'll be 4 years on the tools before i'm qualified to a level 3 standard. 5 years counting my year of workshop and theory.

I know people who have done a fast track course and they are absolutely clueless. I can't stress enough that you positively cannot learn plumbing in a workshop and you can't learn plumbing without someone on site showing you how it's done.
What you learn in tech only scratches the surface. Anyone who claims you'll be even close to competent is lying and has an agenda.
I looked into fast track, of course I did. I thought i'd missed my chance to do an apprenticeship and, like everything else in our society these days, I thought throwing money at it would give me my instant results.

Fortunately my dear old dad, who's a brickie of 40 years experience, explained in no uncertain terms that i'd be wasting my time.

The 6129 does not make you competent. Not on paper and not in reality. All it does is give you a foundation knowledge of basic plumbing which is fine as an essential component of thorough training. As a fast track course it just give you false confidence.

My advice is do it right or not at all.

You can call me all the names under the sun now. Just bear in mind that I have no attachment to traditions and have no agenda.
If you do feel compelled to berate me consider for a moment that it may be because i'm confirming someone you don't want to believe.

Apologies for any typos. It's late and I need my kip.

[snorkel1234]

Good on you John I am also going to do fast track i am 50 was in police in South Africa for years I work hard train hard and on my off days (shifts) I work with the Council plumbers without payment, most of the guy's I have worked with let me do most of the work and say I will have no problem in the industry. I am under no illussions that I will never have the experience of AJS and others but hell it beets the dreary job of being in the Security Industry.

[fuzzy]

mushybees good post

[Rupster]

I bet fast track plumbers can spell though!!!

[John t]

Now then girls, can we call a truce and get on with earning a living.