Unable to remove old olive from shower pipework

[milleniumaire]

Hi, I'm having that "why did I start that job at 3:00pm on a Sunday afternoon feeling"

I thought this would be an easy job, but already it's proving frustrating. I'm looking to replace an old Mira Excel EV thermostatic shower with a new Mira Excel EV thermostatic shower. Should be easy as the pipework doesn't need to be replaced, or so I thought.

This is the external type that fits to the tiled wall (tiles that I can't damage or remove as I have no replacements and they aren't sold any more). The hot and cold pipes protrude out through the wall. I successfully undid the two nuts connecting the pipes to the mixer control and also undid the screws in the plastic mounting plate so that the whole mixer control was able to be removed. Had a bit of a problem with the hot pipe as the mixer control wouldn't free from it, I assume limescale had bonded the pipe to the fitting. One worrying thing was that I was able to disconnect the mixer control from the cold pipe and then turn it 360 degrees around the hot pipe, but the mixer control was firmly attached and the pipe turned! I suspect the end of the copper pipe in the partition wall has come lose from a 90 degree elbow, which is allowing it to spin, which will mean I'll have to get access to it to re-solder! Is it likely that a plastic pipe is connected, allowing it to spin like this? As far as I'm aware, the plumber who did all the work on the house 12 years ago, when it was being built, used copper piping throughout, so I fear the worst!!!!

Anyway, I finally got the mixer control free from the pipe (by taping it until it came loose). Unfortunately, I'm now left with two copper pipe ends with compression nuts and olives and I need to be able to remove the olives. Due to the shortness of the pipe sticking out of the wall I can't push the compression nuts back, away from the olives, so I can't get at them.

I would very much appreciate some quick advice on how I can remove the olives from the protruding pipework.

Also, any comments on why the hot pipe is able to turn. Does it look like my assumptions may be correct and the elbow connection is likely to be loose?

My intention was to quickly get the old shower off and put some plastic ends on so that I could turn the water back on. I've then got a lot of re-grouting to do before putting on the new shower.

I can't use the existing compression nuts because they are gold, to match the old mixer control, while the new shower and fittings are silver.

[BLOD]

get a couple of brass stop ends, the stop end bits should screw straight onto the nuts & olives on the bits of pipe you have sticking out of the wall

[wheeto]

... any comments on why the hot pipe is able to turn. Does it look like my assumptions may be correct and the elbow connection is likely to be loose? ...

Really hope not! Pushfit fitting hidden away behind there if you're "lucky".

[milleniumaire]

Thanks for the prompt responses.

The back of the partition wall to which the shower is fitted is in a small "walk in" storage area. I decided to cut a rectangular piece of plaster board out so I could access the piping from behind and this worked a treat. (Obviously more work to put this right later).

To my surprise, the copper pipe feeding the shower IS connected to some plastic piping, so that explains why the hot pipe was able to turn. There are two 90 degree plastic elbows connecting the short straights of copper piping in the shower to longer vertical lengths of plastic piping running up through the partition. In 12 years of doing diy in the house, this is the first plastic piping I've seen and it's a pleasant surprise as it makes removing the elbows from the copper very easy, so that I can now use some new lengths of copper and I don't need to worry about removing the olives!

However, having not worked with plastic piping before, I have removed the 90 degree elbows, but on the plastic feed there is the equivalent of an olive. It is a ring with small bits that jut into the plastic pipe. I can push this further down the pipe, but I can't pull it off as it just digs into the pipe and prevents any movement. It's obviously been design to easily push on, but not so easily remove. Is there an easy way to remove these or do I need to cut them off? If I cut them, I assume I can purchase just these "olives" or will I need to buy new elbows? This is not the usual speedfit, push fittings I have seen before, I assume this type of plastic fitting came before speedfit.

Thanks in advance.

[quality]

There are many brands of plastic fittings, you are better of replacing the elbows with complete new ones rather than repairing what you already have

[wheeto]

Grab ring. Agree with quality, pop some new fittings. JG Speedfit is my preference for joining their tube or copper, but you will need to use the right fittings (and inserts) for the vertical plastic tube you're connection to.

[milleniumaire]

Thanks again for the advice. I agree with the suggestions to replace the elbows so I used some pliers to cut the grab ring off and I've now capped off the plastic pipe with some push fit ends. I got these from my local plumb centre some time ago and they keep coming in useful for capping off pipes temporarily. I guess this means I can get some speedfit elbows and know they will fit, but it will be a while before I'm fitting the new shower as I've got lots and lots of grout to remove and replace

The water is now back on and the family are happy again

[johnnyplumb]

have you bought the new mira shower yet, if i was you i'd give mira a miss, there stuff is over priced & quality not what it used to be. i'd fit a thermostatic bar shower with fixing kit & alter pipes to suit. if this goes wrong in the future it can be replaced in minutes. make sure you get the fixing kit though.

[milleniumaire]

Yes, I bought the Mira shower a few months ago, but I've only just got around to the job this weekend. I work at Wolseley UK, who own Plumb Center so I can usually get good deals on goods that have been returned to the warehouse. I got the shower for under £200, which isn't a bad price. The original shower was the same type, just an older version, and it was still going strong after 13 years. I've got the same Mira shower in two other bathrooms and not had problems, but the main reason for getting another was the fact that the plumbing wouldn't have to be altered thereby avoiding having to replace tiles that I can no longer source. It will be interesting to see if the newer model stands the test of time.

I was happy with the old shower and screen but my other half decided she needed to refurbish and switch to silver rather than gold fittings, which I admit, look a little dated now. I say "she", obviously I ended up doing the work

[Phil]

have you bought the new mira shower yet, if i was you i'd give mira a miss, there stuff is over priced & quality not what it used to be. i'd fit a thermostatic bar shower with fixing kit & alter pipes to suit. if this goes wrong in the future it can be replaced in minutes. make sure you get the fixing kit though.

What makes you say that Jonny, ya bam that ye are?

Not a fan of Mira?

[twistednuts]

Mira are expensive, but they really do last forever. Theyre the only truly fully servicable shower brand i know of.
You can service pack any Mira shower and it'll be almost as good as new and last a lifetime. Quality comes at a price.
Some bar showers ive fitted have only lasted 6 months! Theyre just a waste of time, unless you buy a Mira one

[johnnyplumb]

What makes you say that Jonny, ya bam that ye are?

Not a fan of Mira?

mira no better than some other showers, the excell costs £380, you can get a bristan thermostatic bar mixer for £50 with 5yr guarantee. i tell you what though phil, your getting the hang of the lingo. there must be some scottish blood in you somewhere.

[johnnyplumb]

this one will test your scottishness- i'll skelp yer erse if ah git any mer lip

[quality]

I just got me fags throughthehouse

[sparky3366]

Is that classed as abuse?