Toilet bowl fails to empty

[johnmadbag]

I have a downstairs toilet which has a 90 degree pan connector with boss, and until a few months ago also had the washing machine outlet connected through the boss. I rerouted the washing machine, and I think, but am not sure, that about that time I started having flushing problems. The toilet is near the outside wall, so the soil pipe goes 90 degrees right out of toilet, then the soil pipe exits through the wall, turns 90 degrees down and straight into the ground, so there is effectively no soil stack.

The bowl fills to the top,and over a period of time empties, with various gurgling and bubbling noises. It empties until the level in the bowl is well below normal, virtually empty.

My first thought is to fit an AAV (?) which would presumably have to be internal (frost). If I release the plug on the boss I hear a hissing of air, which I had assumed was higher pressure in the soil pipe. Is this in fact a vacuum that would be cured by having an AAV? If so should I fit the AAV inside, or out, or just drill a hole in the top of the soil pipe bend outside ?

John

[djboyd]

Hi John

Just in the process of fitting a new bathroom and using an AAV. Firstly, are you sure the problem is due to not having a vent, I wouldn't expect the level of water in the bowl to drop so low if the vent was to blame, sounds more like a blockage. I think this depends on how easy it would be to fit either option and how much space you have.

Sounds a bit odd that a washing machine was attached to this point! Could crack a couple of jokes......

[johnmadbag]

Hi there

Just experimented some more, and on flush when the bowl fills up air bubbles come back into the bowl at the bottom. This would suggest positive pressure in the pan connector space, and I believe AAV is to counteract a vacuum effect. Also I stuck a pressure washer in the boss today, and although wasn't very effective as the nozzle was too big to get inside, nevertheless toilet seems to be emptying slightly faster. I will get some rods and see if I can get them right down the soil pipe. It does have two tight bends before it sets off for the road so could be that.

Thanks again

[REDSAW]

do you use those 'hang on the sides' toilet freshners?

[dontknowitall]

I use loo roll ...

[johnmadbag]

No I don't... is that significant?

[REDSAW]

well, the last 4 like you discribe that i have done have all been blockages in the pan caused by these. i even had to replace one toilet because it wouldnt budge untill i smashed the pan to bits to see what was causing it.

[johnmadbag]

well i stuck a hosepipe up and wiggled it around ok and if i take the plug out and flush it seems ok, but with the plug in the boss the pressure seems to build. will check pan again

[ecowarm]

sounds like you need a vent

[HoodedClaw]

and a new hosepipe now

[johnmadbag]

well that's what i thought, but others seem to think differently. Won't be happy if i fit a vent and it doesn't fix it. will try rodding then a vent

[johnmadbag]

Update. If I temporarily fit some pipe to the boss so the soil pipe is open to the air the flush works perfectly, and the water level remains correct afterwards. Although there is a rush of air OUT of the pipe when flushing, from what I have read the flush will not be working because of a negative pressure, so an AAV should fix it, and I can fit an external one. Unless it's a build-up of positive pressure....

[street elbow]

Johnmadbag.

For goodness sake forget about an AAV

READ the rerplies

LISTERN to what people are telling you,

You have a partial BLOCKAGE in your pipes.

AN AAV will NOT HELP YOU

An AAV will only let air INTO the system so will not work in your case.

CLEAR THE PIPES and system will work.

use the money saved on an AAV to install some rodding access points.

David

[tackleburger]

I'd say it's a blockage. By the description of the soile route it is a stub stack going straight into the drain so shouldn't need a vent in most circumstances. I think the washing machine is a co-incidence can't see that making such a difference.

[gas man]

sounds like your right in the...............