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Info for people considering fast tracking

Discuss Info for people considering fast tracking at UK Plumbers Forums; lol true, after a few expensive public liability claims and feeling like a prat when asked to fix things you dont have a clue about...
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    Default Re: Info for people considering fast tracking

    lol true, after a few expensive public liability claims and feeling like a prat when asked to fix things you dont have a clue about

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    Default Re: Info for people considering fast tracking

    well said tamz, they appear to have researched and listened to the bits they wanted to hear, then blame lumbers for being obstructive.

    with the new quals you dont even get a tech cert, you get to know your working towards!! so you dont even get any qual without a job, give it 12 months there will be some desperate people wanting jobs to justify all that money for no qual

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    Default Re: Info for people considering fast tracking

    When signing up to these courses it is a case of it is easy to believe someone when they tell you what you want to hear.

    Later, it can be hard to listen to what you don't want to hear, by which time, the reality starts to sink in, which makes it painfull listening.
    dontknowitall likes this.

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    Default Re: Info for people considering fast tracking

    Quote Originally Posted by tamz View Post
    What i find hard to comprehend is people who claim to have done their reasearch, spent X amount of thousands and cry they have no recognised qualification with no chance of a job. If they had really done their research they would find you don't need any qualifications to trade as a plumber. They could have bought a couple of books a half decent van and a good set of tools for the same cash. They still wouldn't be employable but could go do their own thing and make just as much of a mess up of things than if they had been "trained".
    Theory training is nothing without practical experience and you learn that fastest by your mistakes. Wreck the odd house now and again and you'll remember what not to do
    So whats the problem then? Anyone whos done a course and has a bit of diy nounce can use what they've learnt and get on with it.

    The only prob seems to be getting their portfolio for gas safe.

    I guess once working in the industry for themselves they'll get experience and then through the contacts they make perhaps get that required portfolio.

    I don't think these courses are a waste of money, they might be a bit expensive but accept that they just provide some theory and a bit of coursework to get you started. Go in with your eyes open and dont expect that a 4 week course + £7k to = new career.

    Lets hope more people read these threads and attend these courses knowing what they are getting. Of course if they are being missold then there needs to be some wrist slapping.

    I knew none of this yesterday but I think my eyes are now fully open.
    Last edited by bikeman01; 27-07-2011 at 08:21 AM.

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    Default Re: Info for people considering fast tracking

    You also have to remember that a good reputation is extremely difficult to build and so very easy to lose! The first time a new business cocks a relatively simple job up through lack of experience, word spreads like wildfire and you may as well hang up yer pipeslice! You need to have the sense to know when to walk away from a job that is beyond you and not "Have a go, whats the worst that could happen!"

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    Default Re: Info for people considering fast tracking

    maybe, although 'Rogue Traders' suggests that some just have to change their company name to keep getting away with it.

    I'm already self-employed so I know the value of a happy customer.

  7. #79
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    Default Re: Info for people considering fast tracking

    So whats the problem then? Anyone whos done a course and has a bit of diy nounce can use what they've learnt and get on with it. This is a very simplistic view, i dont think anyone with 'a bit of nounce' can do gas, as i previously said based on my experience those with a little knowledge are more dangerous. Plumbing is not just bathrooms, something else people need to realise

    The only prob seems to be getting their portfolio for gas safe. The only prob? what about the plumbing nvq? what about a workplace recorder?

    I guess once working in the industry for themselves they'll get experience and then through the contacts they make perhaps get that required portfolio. You need to be working with a gas safe registered engineer who is willing to sign to say you have done at least 140 days work on gas supervised by him/her, thats presuming you have go the nvq/s, without them its 240 days

    I don't think these courses are a waste of money, they might be a bit expensive but accept that they just provide some theory and a bit of coursework to get you started. Go in with your eyes open and dont expect that a 4 week course + £7k to = new career. depends what the course is,, the 6129 has a poor reputation, however i maintain it is a very good course, better than people give it credit for, however its reputation is poor so for potential earnings afterwards it probably is a waste of money

    Lets hope more people read these threads and attend these courses knowing what they are getting. Of course if they are being missold then there needs to be some wrist slapping. 'wrist slapping' bit late by then im afraid, 7k out of pocket and no career

    I knew none of this yesterday but I think my eyes are now fully open.​Im glad to hear it, i hope people do this research sooner in future

  8. #80
    fuzzy
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    Default Re: Info for people considering fast tracking

    Quote Originally Posted by bikeman01 View Post
    maybe, although 'Rogue Traders' suggests that some just have to change their company name to keep getting away with it.

    I'm already self-employed so I know the value of a happy customer.
    Not a business plan i would recommend, do a bad job, change name, and so on. You wonder why these courses have a bad name?

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    Default Re: Info for people considering fast tracking

    Quote Originally Posted by fuzzy View Post
    So whats the problem then? Anyone whos done a course and has a bit of diy nounce can use what they've learnt and get on with it. This is a very simplistic view, i dont think anyone with 'a bit of nounce' can do gas, as i previously said based on my experience those with a little knowledge are more dangerous. Plumbing is not just bathrooms, something else people need to realise

    The only prob seems to be getting their portfolio for gas safe. The only prob? what about the plumbing nvq? what about a workplace recorder?

    I guess once working in the industry for themselves they'll get experience and then through the contacts they make perhaps get that required portfolio. You need to be working with a gas safe registered engineer who is willing to sign to say you have done at least 140 days work on gas supervised by him/her, thats presuming you have go the nvq/s, without them its 240 days

    I don't think these courses are a waste of money, they might be a bit expensive but accept that they just provide some theory and a bit of coursework to get you started. Go in with your eyes open and dont expect that a 4 week course + £7k to = new career. depends what the course is,, the 6129 has a poor reputation, however i maintain it is a very good course, better than people give it credit for, however its reputation is poor so for potential earnings afterwards it probably is a waste of money

    Lets hope more people read these threads and attend these courses knowing what they are getting. Of course if they are being missold then there needs to be some wrist slapping. 'wrist slapping' bit late by then im afraid, 7k out of pocket and no career

    I knew none of this yesterday but I think my eyes are now fully open.​Im glad to hear it, i hope people do this research sooner in future
    I think you misinterpreted my post. I was advocating a stepped approach to a new career:
    1. a bit of theory/practical training as a foot into plumbing,
    2. self employment within your skillset (plumbling bathrooms etc) - stop there and be a plumber or
    3. as you make contacts do the gas trainning and work towards your gas portfolio with your new found friends in the trade assessing you,
    4. finally gas safe registered, get more demanding work.

    So if thats not a practical approach for someone who cant get a traineee position what is?

    The 6129 may have a poor reputation but surely it's just a part of the bigger training picture and just needs to be followed on by other moree specialised traing and poractical experience.

    Secondly, it's not surprising that some get conned. The path to entry is frankly confusing. A multitude of training courses, many leading to unrecognised qualifications, the promotion of a lie that 6129 is all you need, forum members more intent on slagging off formal training as 'fast tracking and worthless' without accepting that formal training is a necessary part for new entrants and gas safe themselves who dont make it clear what they require. Slapping the wrist of companies who missell their training courses will prevent them from making unrealistic claims and conning others.
    Last edited by bikeman01; 27-07-2011 at 11:05 AM.

  10. #82
    fuzzy
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    Default Re: Info for people considering fast tracking

    I think you misinterpreted my post. I was advocating a stepped approach to a new career:
    1. a bit of theory/practical training as a foot into plumbing,
    2. self employment within your skillset (plumbling bathrooms etc) - stop there and be a plumber or
    3. as you make contacts do the gas trainning and work towards your gas portfolio with your new found friends in the trade assessing you,
    4. finally gas safe registered, get more demanding work.

    So if thats not a practical approach for someone who cant get a traineee position what is? That is a more realistic approach than you seemed to suggest before. I'm sure if followed it could lead to a competent engineer, however, several of the stages are very difficult and you should be aware of that. You have missed out the NVQ bits and you say 'gas port folio' not all places ask for a port folio, its a list of jobs that you have done and wrote down ie 'fitted boiler', 'fitted pipework' and then signed by a gas safe registered engineer who supervised all the work whilst it took place

    The 6129 may have a poor reputation but surely it's just a part of the bigger training picture and just needs to be followed on by other moree specialised traing and poractical experience. No more specialied training needed to be a qualified plumber, just need to prove you can apply skills learnt on 6129 in a real working environment to obtain 6089

    Secondly, it's not surprising that some get conned. The path to entry is frankly confusing. A multitude of training courses, many leading to unrecognised qualifications, the promotion of a lie that 6129 is all you need, forum members more intent on slagging off formal training as 'fast tracking and worthless' without accepting that formal training is a necessary part for new entrants and gas safe themselves who dont make it clear what they require. Slapping the wrist of companies who missell their training courses will prevent them from making unrealistic claims and conning others. The pathway is not confusing, in fact its very simple, some places may be at an advantage making you thing its confusing. if the courses are miss sold or people are being bluffed then that is not the fault of the system but of the people doing the bluffing. Do you really think wrist slapping will stop them?

  11. #83
    fuzzy
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    Default Re: Info for people considering fast tracking

    Quote "forum members more intent on slagging off formal training as 'fast tracking and worthless' without accepting that formal training is a necessary part for new entrants"


    There in lies the real problem, you think all responses are simply 'slagging off' I think this is very ignorant of the facts. Every qualified engineer recognises that formal training is a necessary part for new entrants, all apprentices do this, every time served engineer has gone through this process. Not all formal training is fast track, not all is worthless. Some are fast track and some are worthless, it depends what the formal training is.

    People often say "what is more important, training/courses or experience"

    Well, its both, an apprenticeship has the correct balance of training and experiences, one without the other is not worthless but limited, people need both elements to be deemed competent.

    Not sure were you have your facts from previously but i feel you will benefit from some independent advice and guidance

  12. #84
    fuzzy
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    Default Re: Info for people considering fast tracking

    Quote Originally Posted by bikeman01 View Post
    I accept that this is just a layman's view but I base it on taking an interest in the local job market and never ever seeing any vacancies over the intervening period since a shortage was publicised. I stand corrected if I am wrong.
    never saw any vacancies for what, plumbers or plumbing apprentices?

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