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Discuss Help I'm drowning ! Danesmore 20/25 oil pump issue in the Plumbing Jobs | The Job-board area at PlumbersForums.net

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Hello all you great and good people... I do hope I can find a little help with this inoperative boiler.
Its my boiler but the wife loves it too...when it's working.
Thursday morning no central heating on! No hot water!
Boiler locked out...I reset it and it fired up. Different tone coming from oil pump! Ran at allotted times thro day
Friday morning no ch no hw!
Its an Electro Oil Inter burner b11
Reset oil pump v noisy, so purchased another pump later in day fitted it primed it and attempted to fire it up no joy!
On reset after no fire lock out, tried again no click from solenoid so no oil delivery thro pump to nozzle. Tried several times to no avail. Checked wiring all intact.
In desperate attempt to isolate fault bought a new Honeywell controller. Inserted controller .....no fire no solenoid click!
Tested wire integrity from controller base to solenoid earth live and neutral ok
Tested the voltage from outlet of Honeywell controller to solenoid feed ...70 volts!
Replaced new controller with old controller..70v
Voltage feed to controller from boiler 240 v
I DON'T think there is a step down transformer in the controller? Is there?
Bench tested the coils on 240v supply they click and operate ok
Where do I go now?
Many thanks to all anticipation of a boiler Jedi
...my good lady; like me doesn't like this boiler at the moment!
Kind Regards
Farghi
 
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How are you testing the new pump pressure? You can't just replace the pump, it comes set at a low pressure and needs setting at the correct pressure for the nozzle and burner.
This then needs a flue gas analyser to check co and co2 readings. Air will then be adjusted to correct these readings.
If any of these are out, it will either not fire, or be burning to lean or too rich.
If you don't posess any of the above. Call a oil engineer who will sort it.
 
How are you testing the new pump pressure? You can't just replace the pump, it comes set at a low pressure and needs setting at the correct pressure for the nozzle and burner.
This then needs a flue gas analyser to check co and co2 readings. Air will then be adjusted to correct these readings.
If any of these are out, it will either not fire, or be burning to lean or too rich.
If you don't posess any of the above. Call a oil engineer who will sort it.
 
Thank you for the advice I do appreciate it. However I've replaced the pump in the past and all was well it has fired up and run perfectly well. I am not averse to calling an engineer however to get the boiler up and running now would be my goal. There is not enough voltage to the solenoid on the pump to allow the oil through to the burner nozzle. that is my question, why would this be so?
Its an Electro Oil Inter burner b11
 
Might be a faulty control box, might be a weak solenoid. Might be a blocked fuel filter, might be an air lock. It's one of those where you could keep throwing parts at.
I would recommend you get the boiler set up correctly. A pump that is out by 2% either way will burn too hot = wasted fuel. Or burn too rich = soothed up boiler and again wasted fuel. You could get the boiler to fire and think it's fine, but use 10% more yearly fuel. A cost easily covered by getting the right person to sort your boiler.
 
Might be a faulty control box, might be a weak solenoid. Might be a blocked fuel filter, might be an air lock. It's one of those where you could keep throwing parts at.
I would recommend you get the boiler set up correctly. A pump that is out by 2% either way will burn too hot = wasted fuel. Or burn too rich = soothed up boiler and again wasted fuel. You could get the boiler to fire and think it's fine, but use 10% more yearly fuel. A cost easily covered by getting the right person to sort your boiler.
 
Thank you for your reply, Is a new control box, it's a new pump, the oil is available at the pump entry....the solenoid is not getting enough power to open to allow oil in to pump body. Why is the voltage 70 volts at the solenoid supply? That's on 2 control boxes!
 
Stop playing with a combustion appliance that is more than capable of killing yourself and your family.

The combustion will be out. Without an oil gauge and flue gas analyser then you are dangerously pittling in the wind.

Get an engineer, cheaper and safer than blindly chucking new bits at it.
 
Is there a countrywide shortage of oil engineers???
No point making excuses. As well as presently doing without heat, you have been operating your boiler at just any old fuel to air mix that lets you hear the burner firing. Dangerous, bad for environment and must be costing you a fortune in unburnt oil. It definitely won't be near right. ( Note that a clean boiler shell can also indicate unburnt oil that just goes out the flue in fumes, unnoticed. )
To get your boiler "up and running now" just simply would take you "now" to phone a good oil engineer who without doubt will have the expertise, experience and a few thousand pounds worth of spares, tools and very importantly an oil gauge and analyser to "now" sort and set your boiler.
If you are just trying to save some money, you haven't, - all you have done is buy 2 main parts that probably weren't needed, plus wasted your time and money sourcing them.
Your description of the faults is just too extensive and unlikely.

[ Some info, - I repaired identical burner (B11) on a Worcester Bosch boiler this week. I guessed the fault correctly just from experience and also replaced several things to bring the boiler and oil line back to new. Also serviced boiler and set with analyser, all within 2 hours easily.
Previous week same type of boiler with a random lockout for a different customer, - ÂŁ8 parts sorted it plus the usual service, nozzle on top of that and a critical analyser set up.
Only real costs to both the customers above parts was couple hours labour and they will save on oil usage. So pay a little, save a lot.]
 
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Thank you for your great advice, I will call an engineer in the morning. Is there a list of approved engineers. As I've had problems getting one in the past. Near to CF72 9QF
Again many thanks for all your replies
 
You can get a member from OFTEC, but frankly it means nothing much. Need to still get someone experienced in oil and above all, honest.
 
You can get a member from OFTEC, but frankly it means nothing much. Need to still get someone experienced in oil and above all, honest.
Ok thanks for that advice, I've been down this road before...not many oil engineers in this part of my world. The last guy didn't inspire me with confidence as he just stayed replacing parts...I know that is what I have done however I did as much research via Worcester, Bentone , and Web forums.
So I don't need to fix it myself but I need to find an oil tech/engineer OFTEC approved who is knowledgeable on my boiler and honest....OK I'll start looking!
As I asked before, does this forum not have a list of oil engineers by location?
 
No list of oil guys however it does have a "Looking for a ........" section
 
So I booked an Oftec engineer, he replaced the pump(I've done that!)
He replaced the control box ( I'd done that !)
It fired up! Hurrah!
Do you need to adjust the pump pressure ? I asked
No they are matched to the burner !
Any other adjustments necessary?
No that will work just fine!
I paid the man and off he went
So conclusions
He didn't use any of his test or diagnostic tools
He didn't alter the pump pressure
What he did do as fit a working control box
I was sold a duff control box so that is why the boiler wouldn't fire up
It's cost me an extra ÂŁ100 for someone swap parts that I already had done ..not knowing the brand new part I fitted was defective !
Thank you for all the answers with regards this problem.
 
Disgraceful! I assume then he didn't give you any paperwork or test reading, given he didn't do any oil pressure or flue gas tests?
Contact OFTEC and ask them how one of their qualified technicians can fit a new oil pump when a control box was faulty?
Also ask how a new replacement oil pump can somehow be matched to the burner without pressure being set, or an analyser used, according to this guy?
Better still, first contact the boiler manufacturer and ask them are their boilers fitted with special burners that oil pumps can be just bunged on?
On that B11 burner it is very easy to put an oil gauge on it. Looks like you have unfortunately found a qualified oil guy who hasn't a clue, or doesn't care.
Can't say I am surprised.
 
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I agree with Best. Oil Burners should always be set up for the Boiler they are on. They are not specifically designed for any particular boiler. You need to get that checked asap.
 
Thanks for the replies I do appreciate it, I'll will ask around at the supplier of the faulty control box when I return it to see if they know of any engineers who are more attuned to OFTEC and general oil safety standards
 
That is truly bad. As last engineer in I always get the analyser out. Even if it's not a combustion related visit.

Few months ago went to a no oil call out. Ran out, just needs bleeding, nobody's touched it. Bled oil and fired first time. Analyser in and co @ 2500ppm. Somebody had tried to bleed it and screwed up the pump pressure.
Used plenty of ink on that one.

I can only apologise for the muppet you found. Gives us good guys a bad rep.

Always like to think a good engineer is like a puppy.
For life, not just for Christmas.

No neighbours with oil that could recommend?
 
Used to be that some Danfoss oil pumps came out of the box set at 10 bar and it stated that on instructions. (That was too high for Kerosine and all boilers MIs were lower.)
Yet I used to find when I serviced or repaired boilers that if someone had previously replaced the oil pump, the pressure setting had never been set.
No matter how much I am in a hurry, - like over busy and out fitting a nozzle or oil pump on an evening, I still do a final analyser test.
Also you never know who, as Simon says, had a go bleeding the oil pump. Seen a few with 20 bar pressure
 
Again thanks for the observations, I will endeavor to find an honest, reliable, valued oil engineer.

Call the bloke back and say can he send you a copy the FGA report.
Say it is required for the manufactures warranty and insurance purposes.

I wnt to a gas boiler the other week. The owner had had the gas valve changed, the pump changed & the PCB changed and the problem still persisted.
Problem - flame sensing probe was touching the burners causing burner to fail after 10 or so seconds.
Not only did I fix the problem, I walked away with a operating gas valve, pump & PCB that were sitting next to the boiler.

He left some real nasty Google reviews on the company that did the install and subsequent repairs - they offered to refund all the money they charged him for repairs if the owner would remove the reviews.
He got his all his money back.
 
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