Vibration in floor...boiler/water heater?

[Rachiex]

Do you live near anything like a quarry or busy motorway ?
Or anywhere where drilling is active ?

No, thanks for considering it but it's not outside of the flats. I'm in a rural town and been here for ten years. No quarry, not the railway...

To me the biggest clue are that it occurs whena certain neighbour is in, occurs late at night and early hours ofthe morning and a pipe is leaking at the front of the building whenit's at it's worst (very intense in the middle of the night, between1am and 4am)


Thanks again

 

[Rachiex]

Sorry for poor spacing above, I'm having to type out my response on word and then copy and paste here now, for some reason my keyboard doesn't work well on this site!

 

[Rachiex]

I don't know if anything in this thread makes sense to anyone...(in relation to my issue). Thanks.

http://www.***********/diy/threads/vibration-through-carpets-floorboards-and-house.413703/

 

[rpm]

Coming up as a blank page.

 

[Rachiex]

Sorry, it doesn't seem to want to be shared...will try again

http://www.***********/diy/threads/vibration-through-carpets-floorboards-and-house.413703/

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Coming up as a blank page.

Add diynot.co.uk where the ***** are

 

[Rachiex]

Ok an update. What can you gather from this so far?

There are only 3 possible neighbours in my block, one below me, one next to me on the first floor and one below him.

A lot of the time when I'm woken in the early hours both my next door (on my level) and the person beneath him are already up and getting ready for work (lights are on). The vibration often starts around or before this time. (it also sometimes goes like the clappers in the middle of the night, between midnight and four am sometimes continuously and it's like a mini earthquake in my flat).

The person beneath me has been kind enough to check all appliances with me and none of them caused a vibration, BUT we haven't checked whether the night water heater is doing it because we couldn't check that during the day (apparently it comes on by itself and she doesn't touch it, even if going away).

Here's something. A local plumber told me to watch two pipes on the front of my building. There was a long one that comes out of the wall of my flat and a short one, comes out of the wall of the downstairs flat. He said if either of them start dripping water when the vibration is taking place, it's a sign that someone's boiler is overheating.

Well a couple of times in the middle of the night when there is a mini earthquake going on, I've gone out and the shorter pipe is leaking water, regularly dripping.

Now in theory that would be coming from my downstairs neighbour's home, BUT I'm actually more of the belief that the vibration is coming from the flat next door, because it always seems to happen when that person is in or comes home and not otherwise.

Before I call anyone out (and I'm away most of this week and next on work trips), any thoughts on this one? Could that short pipe, even though it seems to be coming out of the downstairs flat, be coming from my next door neighbour on my first floor level? What would it's leaking point to?

This is starting to freak me out a bit because it really is intense at times (the last two nights in fact, perhaps due to drop in temperature) but all three neighbours say they don't feel or hear anything and I can't knock any of them up in the middle of the night yet, until I'm clearer on where it's coming from. Surely at some point something will give, my lounge floor and bedroom is vibrating intensely when it happens. I have a feeling my next door neighbour knows what it is as he seems to have avoided conversation about it with me. He also mentioned having had a valve replaced on his water heater and said he wished he could afford a new water heater. But of course it could be me just thinking that it's coming from there.

On another note I haven't a clue what people are talking about when they mention the ball cock in a cistern, how could that, going below a certain level cause such intense (mini earthquake type) vibrations across my flat?

Thanks for your time everyone.

Anyone have any idea about this above? I'm just wondering whether to call a plumber out next week or give up and move. (the crucial thing being whether it's worth having a plumber come out if the vibration is not actually happening and/or even if it was happening, what can they possibly know from it alone with no other clues) Thanks.

 

[john999uk]

I am not a plumber so my suggestion is not a plumbing solution. While it would be great to get to the bottom of the problem and fix it, maybe a quicker easer solution is to reduce it's impact on you. What I mean is if it's the vibration that is waking you up then maybe stop the vibrations going to the bed. You can get anti vibration mounts, not intended for beds but they might work. Have a google for anti vibration mounts and see what you can find that can go between the bed and the floor.
Hope that gives you some ideas that you could try without bothering the neighbours.
Fingers crossed you can find a solution that gives you a good night sleep.

 

[Rachiex]

I am not a plumber so my suggestion is not a plumbing solution. While it would be great to get to the bottom of the problem and fix it, maybe a quicker easer solution is to reduce it's impact on you. What I mean is if it's the vibration that is waking you up then maybe stop the vibrations going to the bed. You can get anti vibration mounts, not intended for beds but they might work. Have a google for anti vibration mounts and see what you can find that can go between the bed and the floor.
Hope that gives you some ideas that you could try without bothering the neighbours.
Fingers crossed you can find a solution that gives you a good night sleep.

Thanks I appreciate the suggestion, I have tried virtually everything sadly and have been given the same advice by an audio specialist (he did say that some vibrations permeate everything though), sadly this vibration permeates everything..so now it's find the source or move (and I'm so exhausted moving is not appealing either at the moment). Appreciate the thought and I will have one last search though, thanks.

 

[Rachiex]

The reason I am posting again is I'm trying to arrive at a decision. I don't want to leave this in limbo for much longer.

I'm wondering if the reason there are no responses to my latest post is because it is a very complicated issue and difficult to find the source? If that's the case, please feel free to tell me what you're all thinking because I need this to stop one way or another, either by finding the source (and to me the evidence suggests downstair's water heater overheating, or next door neighbour's water heater) OR by making plans to move. I've been getting four hour's sleep a night for a year now and I have to stop the problem one way or the other.

thanks

 

[Last Plumber]

Hello again.
Do you know if the neighbours have unvented hot water cylinders ?
If it's a pressure relief valve operating, they will open and shut rapidly. This gives a fast thumping that could possibly cause vibrations to travel depending on where the tank and pipework is in relation to your floor.

 

[Rachiex]

Hello again.
Do you know if the neighbours have unvented hot water cylinders ?
If it's a pressure relief valve operating, they will open and shut rapidly. This gives a fast thumping that could possibly cause vibrations to travel depending on where the tank and pipework is in relation to your floor.

Thanks Last Plumber


I've just looked it upand yes, I'm thinking that all the flats would have unvented as I'veheard no one talk here about a water tank in any loft, etc.


The neighbour who toldme his boiler was noisy, later told me he had a valve replaced and hedoes sometimes wonder whether it'll 'hold' but when I asked him if hefelt any vibration coming from it he said no and has avoided myrequests for switching things on in his flat to see if anythingcauses a vibration.


That said, I know thataround the time this all started last year, my downstairs neighbourhad a new water heater put in, but it was a couple of months afterthat that I noticed a problem. The downstairs neighbour also reportsthat all pipes from that water heater go down into the ground, not uptowards my flat.


I have 3 theories onthe go currently:

1. It's the neighbour next door's water heater/boiler, who said it was noisy and really needed replacing
   
2. It's the new water heater that was installed downstairs last year
   
3. It's the neighbour next door's subwoofer (or whatever these things are)

Logic tells me it'sunlikely to be number 3 because it often happens when that neighbouris in bed and he gets up incredibly early for work, so unlikely to beup all night with subwoofer on, etc.


All the rest of theevidence points to number 1, from what he said and the fact that hehad a valve replaced....but also to number 2, because there's anoverflow copper pipe on the outside of downstairs' flat that issometimes rhythmically dripping water in the early hours when thevibration is going like the clappers, lol.


I think I'm going tosee what a plumber thinks as soon as I can and then, depending onwhat he works out, ask the landlady to speak to all adjoiningneighbours, failing that, plan to move.

 

[Rachiex]

This gives a fast thumping that could possibly cause vibrations to travel depending on where the tank and pipework is in relation to your floor.

If it were my neighbour, could he live with that sound in his own flat, in the middle of the night? I suppose if it's too expensive to replace then perhaps so.

I've learned one thing from all this, sound isn't as bad as vibration. You can learn to shut out sound, but not vibration.

 

[Last Plumber]

I think favourite is number two. That pipe could be the one from the PRV
( pressure relief valve ).
The plumber will need to witness things to be able to identify anything I would expect.
Let us know his or her thoughts

 

[Rachiex]

Thanks for thinking it through with me Last Plumber. I have one reservation about it being number 2 (downstairs) and that is, whenever I'm woken in the early hours by the vibration, it always coincides with my side neighbour (and the one under him) being up and about getting ready for work at 4 – 5 am. The downstairs neighbour is often away.

That said the downstairs neighbour did say that her night water heater is on even when she's away and that pipe is the only concrete thing I've seen that points to something.

I'll let you know, my landlady will probably want to send out her own plumber but I will be keeping all the helpful people here in mind if they are nearby.

Thanks again, I'm intrigued to find out what it is now it's driving me crazy (and have friends telling me its a poltergeist, lol)

 

[Last Plumber]

There's no plant room on the floor you're on with a pump in is there ?

 

[Rachiex]

No idea what a plant room is....I'm just in a first floor flat, I don't think there's much between me and the downstairs neighbour to be honest. Thanks.

 

[Last Plumber]

Plant room has things in like boilers, pumps, water heaters etc so on and so on.

It was Just a thought.

You really need to ask the neighbours point blank if it's them.
I would suggest asking if they can have a night where the hot water is off.

There's a point. Does this happen when they're on holiday ?

 

[Rachiex]

Plant room has things in like boilers, pumps, water heaters etc so on and so on.

It was Just a thought.

You really need to ask the neighbours point blank if it's them.
I would suggest asking if they can have a night where the hot water is off.

There's a point. Does this happen when they're on holiday ?

Thanks Last Plumber


My neighbour to theside on my level has not been away at all in the last year since it'sbeen going on.


The downstairsneighbour is away a few times a week but it still happens (but thecopper pipe is coming out of her flat, or appears to be, that said Icannot see any pipes coming out of the side neighbour's flat). Shedid say that the night water heater is on even if she's away as she'sbeen told to leave it like that.


I can ask them to leavethe water heater off but before I make a nuisance of myself I wantedto try and get as clear as possible where it might be coming from,because both neighbour's are convinced it's not coming from them. Ofcourse it's coming from somewhere.

 

[Rachiex]

I don't know if this is relevant at all but around 00.08 every night I hear a 'knock' sound (just one) coming from downstairs and then about 3 mins later the vibration starts.

Speaking to a plumber this week. The landlady from downstairs has conceded to speaking to this plumber too, though she mainly seemed to want to run me down and tell me it's not happening when she met with me, despite me saying that I merely wanted to rule her boiler out as a possible source.

 

[john999uk]

As I said I am no plumber but if the 'knock' happens that regularly it would seem logical it is caused by either a timer going on or off. So your neighbours should be able to confirm quite easily tell you if their central heating or water heaters go on or off at about midnight. So you might not need a plumber to find out which appliance is causing the vibrations.
One question, when the clocks went back did the timing of the knock and vibration change?

As for your landlady not being too happy it's probably because she doesn't want to have to pay money out to fix something. It might be worth telling the landlady that if you can't get to the bottom of the noise you will have to look for somewhere else to live. You moving out will cost her, be that the time it takes to get a new tenant and loss of rent or an agents new tenant fees. Obviously don't say it in a threatening manner, 'you really don't want to move but you cant sleep so it is effecting your life', so can she help you stay there? So that way it is in her interest to help you resolve the issue.

Really hope you can get to the bottom of things and get it resolved.

 

[Rachiex]

I think the knock sound did go back an hour with the clocks, it was happening at around 8 mins past 1am. But it's not consistent enough, like not every night. It was at the start of the year but not now.

I'm still reeling from the meeting I had with the landlady for downstairs! She's not the same as my own landlady (who is concerned about this but is waiting for a plumber to get back to her, one that she has used for years and years), it's a different landlady for the tenant downstairs.

But thanks for the advice John999uk, you make a good point there.

Sadly the landlady for downstairs met with me but didn't seem to want to be friendly in any way, was patronising and disbelieving about the whole thing and also told me not to speak to her tenant anymore (confusing since the tenant had actually told me she'd be willing to help in any way she could). This landlady has not responded to any of my communication over the past year.

Everyone keeps suggesting that I just get people to turn stuff off, etc, and test it....you wouldn't believe how hard it is. The guy next door doesn't respond when you make any requests and/or changes the subject and clearly doesn't want to help in any way for some reason and the girl downstairs talks so fast and wraps the conversation up in minutes (which seems deliberate) that nothing is done thoroughly and hence the full checks have not been done.

I called out a plumber today and paid for it myself, while I wait for my landlady to get her own plumber in. He said that if the pipe I mentioned is leaking water, then, from the look of the building, etc, it does appear to be the result of a pressure relief valve that he would think is coming from downstairs. However he was unsure about why there were no pipes for the side neighbours (so did theirs feed into mine and downstairs internally?).....and my intuition cannot rule out the side neighbours as it often seems to happen when they're in and not when they're out.

Anyway that's where I'm at with my quest to get more sleep and feel at home again, lol. The plumber was like 'ask your neighbour this' and that, etc, and I said I can't, it's crazy but I can't.

 

[Rachiex]

on a slightly more positive note, the landlady for downstairs has conceded that a plumber can check her boiler if he thinks it necessary, so we'll see what happens. It may have nothing to do with downstairs, but the leaking pipe suggests a fault in any case (but it's a mystery that there are no outside pipes for the side flats....)

 

[unguided1]

Where abouts in the country is this?

 

[Rachiex]

Where abouts in the country is this?

Dorset.

I've noticed the pipe is leaking more now the weather's got colder, and the vibration is worse during the night and at weekends when people are home.

 

[unguided1]

Dorset.

I've noticed the pipe is leaking more now the weather's got colder, and the vibration is worse during the night and at weekends when people are home.

Still a bit vague! Where in Dorset?

 

[Rachiex]

Unguided1 I'm new to this forum and don't usually give my whereabouts on the internet, what are you thinking/reason for the question, thanks.

 

[unguided1]

Because I've only been reading this thread fer about two days and it's irritating me as much as I imagine it's irritating you, I'm currently working 7 days a week but willing to come down Sunday to look and sort it, if Yer interested I will pm you my phone number

 

[Rachiex]

Because I've only been reading this thread fer about two days and it's irritating me as much as I imagine it's irritating you, I'm currently working 7 days a week but willing to come down Sunday to look and sort it, if Yer interested I will pm you my phone number

Thanks, but my landlady has now asked me to contact a specific plumber, I'm tied by her choices. Appreciate the offer. The problem is getting neighbour cooperation as it's clear it's not coming from my own water heater, I needed to have a valid reason to approach any neighbour's. I'll not post anymore unless I have a tangible update. I appreciate everyone's help so far, it has actually made a difference.

 

[unguided1]

Thanks, but my landlady has now asked me to contact a specific plumber, I'm tied by her choices. Appreciate the offer. The problem is getting neighbour cooperation as it's clear it's not coming from my own water heater, I needed to have a valid reason to approach any neighbour's. I'll not post anymore unless I have a tangible update. I appreciate everyone's help so far, it has actually made a difference.

Ok bud, but the offer stands, even if Yer not satisfied with the plumber she sends out, if you want my number, I will pm it to Yer and please keep us updated

 

[Dotty]

Unguided1 I'm new to this forum and don't usually give my whereabouts on the internet, what are you thinking/reason for the question, thanks.

Hi Rachiex

We never ask for a full location, just a general area, Croydon for example.

Then any of the chaps who cover that area would contact you via PM.

We don't want your personal details plastered over t'interweb either.

 

[Rachiex]

Thanks Croppie and Unguided1

I'll keep you updated, meanwhile I am wishing and praying that as this has been going on for a year, someone's boiler will break down completely soon.

 

[unguided1]

Thanks Croppie and Unguided1

I'll keep you updated, meanwhile I am wishing and praying that as this has been going on for a year, someone's boiler will break down completely soon.

Get me down there I will break someone's boiler!

 

[Rachiex]

LOL.

Well an update. A plumber has come to have a look at the situation. We've discovered that there ARE separate pipes coming from the two side flats (that is my next door neighbour on the first floor and the person beneath him), as well as from my flat and the person's flat beneath me.

Tonight the vibration started but by the time the plumber got here it had stopped. There was water coming out of the downstairs pipe from the side (not underneath me), but not loads and it was cool.

However before the plumber arrived, about 45 mins before, a mirror on the wall near that pipe had really steamed up. This suggests that hot water was coming out of the pipe. I explained to the plumber that I couldn't go and check because it's right under a person's kitchen window and it would look like I was snooping, there are bushes and everything, it would look odd for me to be looking in there.

The plumber thinks it could possibly be overheating of the water heater for the downstairs property on the side, but unsure at the moment.

I asked how that would affect my floor vibrating because I'm not directly above that property, I'm up and next door. So water would have to run up somehow and then turn at a right angle to go across my floor (and both bedroom and living room floors at that). He said it wasn't out of the question, but that it would be the cold water, or something....

He asked if we can get the plans for the property as it would be interesting what is running under my floor.

Another thing he wondered is whether it's to do with the cold water tank. Interestingly I have sometimes felt a milder vibration outside near the drain that he said was to do with this....but I thought that might have been my imagination as I couldn't make any sense of it. He thinks it's possible I might have done.

Anyway he has suggested that the management company insist that all adjoining flats are checked for starters, but the problem is I don't think the management company will do anything.

Just posting this update in the hope it brings on a lightbulb moment for someone else...at a loss here and can't concentrate at work through lack of sleep.

 

[Last Plumber]

I know this may already have been asked. Has anyone apart from you, felt this vibration ?