Can you work on a boiler if your not Gas Safe?

[Macca2009]

Jesus I didn't think it would stir up such a debate. For all you lot that are just having a go at me and moaning about 'we pay our fees'. Just stop and have a think why i have asked the question in the first place. Yes I am a commercial engineer who is qualified. Yes I have now decided to try my hand at the self employed domestic market, as you will all know that the bottom is falling out of the construction side. I have asked the the question to get some advice, so I don't go breaking any laws. As the last thing I want to do is go to jail. I have spoken to Gas Safe and the bloke did say I can work on pcb's and fans for example, I am a bit skeptical about if the advice is correct. That is the whole reason I have asked this on here to make sure. I will be contacting Gas Safe again to double check. May I thank all of you who have given good advice on here, that what I needed not an ear full.

 

[Mike Jackson]

Before getting your knickers in a twist have a read of your first post. Nowhere do you mention that you are commercial Gas Safe. If you had put all of the facts in it wouldn't have got people so agitated.

 

[kirkgas]

Thank you to all you people who actually gave some sensible advice. By the way I am a qualified plumbing and heating engineer and I do have commercial gas safe qualification. So for all you bigot's who moan about me like a 'have a go DIYer' knock yourself down a peg or two will you. I have currently started working for myself and wanted to know where I stood on fixing boilers and how far I can go with them. I know I can't touch gas and I don't fix anything I'm not competent with. I have actulay phoned Gas Safe and asked them and I have been told I can work on PCB's and fans, just not gas pipes and valves. I'm going to get this verified agian to make sure. But that was all I was after, and not to be moaned at by the dinosaurs on here.

Have a nice day!!!:smug:

chech GSR website for the TB's there was one which caused a stooshie when it came out as it clarified who could do what inside gas appliances and it clearly stated that electrical components inside the boiler could be changed by a spark as long as no part of the gas train was worked on, so the question was asked what about boiler pcbs that had potentiometers on them to set gas pressure, the question got a blank, not sure if it has been superceded by now as it was a while ago

 

[kirkgas]

In technical terms to work on a fan, pump or pcb you would have to take the cover of the boiler and that is classed as being gas work. If you have commercial gas qualifications enrol at your local technical college to do the change over course from commercial COCN1 to CCN1 Domestic and the CEN1 qualification then you can register with gas safe legally, what you have to remember is that the gas industry is a legal mine field so it is better to pay a few hundered £ than risk a fine of thousands. Just my 2c.

pcb's and fans are inside the white decorative cover not the combustion box in some boilers

 

[northcarr]

You already know you have to be gsr as you have now said you have a com ticket

Hope someone can clarify this one for me.

I want to know where I stand on fixing domestic boilers.

I don't have domestic Gas Safe qualifications. Can I still work on boilers? in this I mean like replacing parts on them like PCB's and fans ect. I don't and never will touch anything gas, ie gas valves and pipework. Where do i stand on doing the other stuff? Am I allowed to so long as I know what I'm doing and competent?

Is anyone else in this situation and what are the boundaries.

Thanks

 

[kirkgas]

you cannot work on any gas appliance even in your own home without gsr qualifications because a gas explosion in your property puts other people and properties at risk

you need to read the guidence notes that come with the gas regs, as quoted earlier in this thread, you MUST be competant, not registered or have paper qualifications

 

[dancinplumba]

what if you have to undo screws to take the case off ?

 

[kay-jay]

Fair comment kay-jay, and there are few that would disagree with your statement.

But, I hope you will share in my questioning of some of your beliefs:

Right and wrong, pertains to moral law, and things are usually judged right or wrong by the consensus of the majority, in a democracy - so in order to judge right or wrong, we would have to be represented in some way, by those who make the decisions - who represents the gas installer? and do we trust them to make 'right' decisions on our behalf.

For example, licence to practice brings about better workmanship - corgi annaual report 2007, documented significant numbers of NCS, AR, and some immediately dangerous installations, on work which had been notified as 'competent' through the gas work notification scheme.

But, what about the notion of competence? can it be measured accurately using the multiple choice questions and simulated environments that are nothing like real work? Does an assessment taken in college, give an accurate measure of competence or competency in relation to the occupational role of a plumber or gas installer - would you bet your house on it?

So how can we be assured that the system is valid, reliable and rigorous? Who can assure us?

i should have been clearer in my post, when i mentioned the right way and the wrong way i didn't mean swapping parts and testing (although there is a case for this)rather i was alluding to being registered and being legal, and demonstrating the required competence through the acs.

but at the end of the day if joe bloggs blows up a house, is he not responsible irrespective of whether he is gsr or not??

 

[adam84]

I would just like to say that the level of knowledge and professionalism on this forum is extremely high, i have been involved in a similar thread on the ultimate handy man forum and the general feeling on that forum is that home owners can still work on gas appliances/fittings in their own properties for no fee, i have tried in vain to explain that is no longer the case, with elements of the general public still believing this to be the case Gas Safe need step up their efforts to educate people about gas safety and the law regarding gas work i feel that as professionals of the trade gas safe expects us to pay our fees and do their job aswell with regards to education.

 

[REDSAW]

i suppose thats why this is called ukplumbersforum and not ultimate handy man?.lol.

i also wouldnt think it to hard for gas safe to step in on these forums and deliver a be-all-end-all response to the questions asked by a simple 'yes' or 'no', i mean, its not exactly sticking their necks out is it?.

 

[Deleted member 25704]

rather i was alluding to being registered and being legal, and demonstrating the required competence through the acs

kay-jay, my response to your post was a bit confusing.

The point I wished to make, was that ACS assessment is not a reliable test of competence.

But, we just bow our heads and accept it. We might think that GSR leads to more work and better professional status - it doesn't. We will reflect on the first two decades of the 21st century as 'the great train-ing robbery'. With no one to represent our interests, the self employed are exposed to as much tax, as the CO lobby, HSE, GSR, Government etc, want to load on us.

 

[kay-jay]

kay-jay, my response to your post was a bit confusing.

The point I wished to make, was that ACS assessment is not a reliable test of competence.

But, we just bow our heads and accept it. We might think that GSR leads to more work and better professional status - it doesn't. We will reflect on the first two decades of the 21st century as 'the great train-ing robbery'. With no one to represent our interests, the self employed are exposed to as much tax, as the CO lobby, HSE, GSR, Government etc, want to load on us.

i agree with you. but just because the acs isn't a fully reliable competence standard and gas safe is all take and no give, would you be prepared to fly in the face of legislation and complete gasworks without registration and therefore illegally? i know i wouldn't.

which is the point i was trying to make about 'the right way' in my first post.

all confusion aside it appears we agree on the salient points

 

[secret squirrel]

The other day i needed an operation but my doctor was busy so i went to the vets, after all if you can operate on one animal then its got to be all the same meat and veg.

You wouldn't doing too bad with that really, you need more qualifications to enter vet school than to be a medical doctor! it is harder to get into vet school than dr school.

I've got a stanley knife, a makita and a head torch...... I may be able to assist.

 

[GrahamM]

kay-jay, my response to your post was a bit confusing.

The point I wished to make, was that ACS assessment is not a reliable test of competence.

But, we just bow our heads and accept it. We might think that GSR leads to more work and better professional status - it doesn't. We will reflect on the first two decades of the 21st century as 'the great train-ing robbery'. With no one to represent our interests, the self employed are exposed to as much tax, as the CO lobby, HSE, GSR, Government etc, want to load on us.

I kind of disagree with your comment on ACS.

What in your opinion would be a reliable test of competence?

To pass the ACS you must have some form of training/knowledge in Gas regulations & works. You must then put this training/knowledge to use and for they few days work safely.

At the very least you should take away with you the basic knowledge on how you should be working safely with gas. Wither you use that in your everyday work environment is another matter.

We then have to go through it again in 5 years time where any bad habits or complacency's should be addressed and again you should leave with the basic knowledge of safe working.

Passing a 45 minute driving test does not mean you are are suddenly Lewis Hamilton. What it does (or should) mean is, you have at the very least the basic skill-set/knowledge to drive safely, unsupervised on public roads and have been approved to apply for a license to do so. Just like the ACS qualification.

The ACS is not a complete package. It basically confirms that Joe Bloggs has the basic knowledge and skills to work with gas safely.

I did say "I kind of disagree with your comment". What I would like to see is a bit more time spent on various fires as I believe there is a lack of knowledge out-there from supposedly qualified engineers. Maybe this is due to a lot of engineers do not work on them often enough.

Just my tuppence worth.

 

[GrahamM]

You wouldn't doing too bad with that really, you need more qualifications to enter vet school than to be a medical doctor! it is harder to get into vet school than dr school.

I've got a stanley knife, a makita and a head torch...... I may be able to assist.

Just make sure you have a sterile surgical steel blade in that Stanley.

 

[Deleted member 25704]

I kind of disagree with your comment on ACS.

What in your opinion would be a reliable test of competence?

No problems with your well-made points Graham. But I can offer a better, more valid way of assessing competence, and its been used since we were hunter gatherers.

Its called clinical observation. If I wished to have an adequate understanding of your competence, I would not invite you to a training centre.

I would want to observe your performance in different work contexts. I could assess your 'know how', knowledge and performance without saying a word to you. It would take a couple of days at the most.

If I wished to accertain your understandings of abstract (written) knowledge, I could verbally question you, while you are working - but this knowledge often has limited use in work situations for most technicians.

I could offer more technical faults with competency and competence, with regard to what they mean and how they are defined, but I know one thing for sure - the current system does not test understanding, or knowledge or performance because they are tested in simulated environments - so they immediately contradict any sort of claim to 'competence' because this can only be tested in real situations - would we be happy with surgeon working on our families, that have only practised on dummies - I doubt it. Would we be happy flying with pilots that had only learned on simulators...probably not.


It has become a belief that we can be trained in these situations, but really we only start learning on the job...we all know this for sure. So apprenticeship is the most reliable system - all other routes are a short-cut to this, and hence questionable as to their reliability and validity.

This is a well documented area of discussion, and the Germans don't buy it - that is almost good enough for me!

 

[Robert Howes]

What about bleeding the pump in a combi boiler? Removing the brass plug and turning the rotor with a screwdriver then replacing the plug? Is that legal or do I need to be Gas Safe registered to do that?

 

[Reg Man]

As long as you don't break into the gas way. Its then not gas work. Question is? why do you mess about heating systems if your not proven competent to do so.

 

[Reg Man]

Question is? why are you messing around a boiler that you have not been proven competent in an assessment centre and are not legally registered to do so. Finer detail is if you have not broken into a gas way then that is not illegal.

 

[Robert Howes]

By training I am a car mechanic and I understand mechanical things like the mechanical parts of a boiler. Cars are arguably more dangerous than boilers. They have killed millions of people and you don't need to be certificated to work on them. If a pump sticks I free it up.

 

[Dotty]

Removing the case constitutes gas work as it invariably forms part of the combustion seal.

So, to put it bluntly, no you cannot. This is in accordance with section 26(9) with the Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations.

Irregardless of you being a mechanic and your trade kills more than ours.

If there's something wrong with your boiler I suggest you call in a gsr.