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notice gas safety related advice

Discuss notice gas safety related advice at UK Plumbers Forums; The arguement of gas parts only sold to gsr is in theory a good arguement however if you compare our industry to mechanics where any old busy body can buy ...
  1. #13
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    Default Re: notice gas safety related advice

    The arguement of gas parts only sold to gsr is in theory a good arguement however if you compare our industry to mechanics where any old busy body can buy car parts and repair then isnt that just as dangerous??

    money rules imho when it comes to this arguement suppliers will supply to anyone

    and as tamz says the govt look upon our industry as well practiced and run as very few deaths
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    Default Re: notice gas safety related advice

    Just as an aside, although we don't sell retail, we sell an enormous amount of gas appliances to organisations other than GSR engineers or firms.

    Councils
    Housing associations
    MOD
    Hospitals
    Schools
    Universities

    I don't know what the overall proportions are, but I bet there are many hundreds of thousands of gas appliances that are purchased by institutions, and then fitted by qualified subbies.

    Speaking as a tax-payer, to be honest I don't want these purchases to have to be made through a GSR subbie, with their markup.
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    Default Re: notice gas safety related advice

    You will never stop the diy numpty from attempting a repair most peeps have common sense a few are just idiots .

    I had a cust phone me up as they had just moved into a new house and was asked to check gas safety etc etc

    the cust watched me do a TT and i informed him they had a drop so i isolated the fire in front room and proceeded to carry out another test, i just happened to peer throught he window and what was the idiot cust doing , using a lighter around the gas pipe !!!!!!

    idiots like that you will never stop

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    Default Re: notice gas safety related advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Stafford View Post
    OK, I'll take the other side of this argument.

    Bearing in mind our business model, you might expect me to be strongly in favour of this concept, but after thinking about it for a couple of decades, I have come to the conclusion that its a bad idea.

    There are two main reasons - one of principle and one of practicatily.

    Firstly, we live in a free country. The default position ought to be that anything is allowed, and that if things that are banned or restricted we have these controls because there is clear and demonstrable evidence that by limiting an individual freedom, there is a greater benefit to society as a whole.

    We have several levels or degrees of restriction.

    1) Very dangerous items, like firearms, explosives, some drugs and a handful of other items are controlled at point of ownership with laws that are generally enforced pretty thoroughly and are only allowed to be held by people who can demonstrate a clear need for them, and has the relevant protections and controls to stop them from falling into the wrong hands.

    2) Another category, including motor vehicles and gas appliances, are free to own, but are controlled by licencing the skill of operators at point of use (ie driving licence, gas safe quals) and is usually enforced by exception - we wait until there is a problem before we deal with enforcement. Otherwise you would have to prove you had a licence every time you got in your car, or bought petrol.

    3) There is a final group - including alcohol and cigarettes, which we acknowledge as a society are dangerous, but our only attempt to control them is to prohibit the sale to under 18s. This is barely enforced at all.

    What is being suggested is that gas spares and appliances are so dangerous that they should be moved from category two up to category one (along with firearms and class A drugs). I simply don't see the benefit to society that this would bring. Although every death is tragic, there simply are not enough deaths due to preventable DIY gas work to justify such a draconian change. If you really think that every life is so precious than any restriction is worth it to save just one - then you should be arguing for a 20mph speed limit on all roads, or a total ban on alcohol and tobacco!

    My second point is a purely practical one. Banning the sale of gas spares does not mean that every job will be done by a competent engineer. In some cases it simply makes it more likely that a DIYer will use an inappropriate product. Can't buy a gas cooker hose? Don't worry, a length of garden hose and two jubilee clips will do! Can't buy a gas-rated valve? Never mind, use one designed for water.

    Just as prohibition created more problems than it solved, I think that this would actually lead to more DIY disasters than it would prevent.

    Let me offer an alternative solution. Spend less than 10th of what implementing such controls would cost on:

    a) a really good and sustained public information campaign about the dangers of DIY gas work
    b) prosecuting substantially more cases of shoddy and dangerous workmanship

    I'm very sorry to say that if we could track back the origins of all the "hall of shame" jobs, many would not be DIY. They would be done by "qualified" blokes.
    As usual an excellent rebuttal. An informed and inteligent perspective which shows you have applied more thought to the issue and its total consequences than I had stopped to do. Certainly your last points are definitely something the industry should persue, better policing and prosecution. Especially of rogue "registered" and "unregistered" fitters and repairers.
    Ray Stafford likes this.
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    Default Re: notice gas safety related advice

    Quote Originally Posted by tamz View Post
    In theory that is a good idea but it will never happen. I'm afraid not enough people die of botched diy gas work to make the politico's blink an eye. Maybe 2 a week for a year or 2 might get them to sit up and take notice.

    On a similar issue it is harder to buy parts for a sprinkler system but that seems to be a closed shop due to insurance requirements.

    Maybe the insurance companies could be the ones with the "power" to deter it.
    Don't think so, Tamz, An awful lot of people get killed by cars (second only to the AK47 in terms of 'dangerous to humans') every day, still an awful lot of cars on the road though!

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    Default Re: notice gas safety related advice

    Just reading through the comments, while you have major DIY chains supplying gas fittings and components to anyone willing to purchase them, the issue of the public tampering and playing with gas will always be around. Perhaps a large advertising campaign by Gas Safe on the TV and in the main stream press will start to educate the public to the dangers of non GSRs tampering with gas.
    This would also create a whole new line of customers seeking gas repairs ect.. This must be driven by Gas Safe and use our registration fees, to finally benefit the GSR engineers.

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    Default Re: notice gas safety related advice

    If Joe bloggs Diy'er extends a flue pipe, or removes a boiler cover etc...they don't see that as being wrong. I was sat in the pub a while back and someone asked me about the price to fit a cooker, I told them, you have to TT, check clearances, gas rates etc but I was universally shot down by a few ppl round the table '' Oh, you don't need to do all that, ppl have fitted them for years'' . Same on LSC's, I'd notify ppl of NCS and they'd just laugh the stuff off '' It's been like that for years''. The whole image of the industry needs changing and the regs need simplifying too, there's too much confusion.

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    Default Re: notice gas safety related advice

    I spoke to a gas safe inspector on why DIY shops are able to sell gas products to general public he told me they went to court to try and stop this but it was thrown out under freedom of trade act

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    Default Re: notice gas safety related advice

    Quote Originally Posted by lambchop View Post
    I spoke to a gas safe inspector on why DIY shops are able to sell gas products to general public he told me they went to court to try and stop this but it was thrown out under freedom of trade act
    I do not think it went to court, but it was explored as a proposal, through the legalities and it did result in the cross over of how it effected the freedom of trade and was therefore not able to go forward.

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    Default Re: notice gas safety related advice

    If we restrict gas spares to gas engineers we must restrict electrical spares to sparks and some car spares to garages, can see a few of us moaning about that

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    Default Re: notice gas safety related advice

    Quote Originally Posted by solutions View Post
    :agree: no spares without gas safe id. No gas rated issolaters without id, no cooker hose without id, no gas fired boilers water heaters or fires. Serial numbers for parts and appliances logged by retailer against purchasers gas safe reg. No escaping shoddy work by registeted engineers when the parts are traceable.
    Pitty this is not the case they do it in Germany but anyone can walk in and buy a boiler.
    Are there any plans to do this in the UK ?

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    Default Re: notice gas safety related advice

    Boilers not dangerous PEOPLE ARE!!!
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