Back me up on this.

[HeatStar]

Evening guys,

I'm due to look at a job in London for a very high profile client (with royal connections) later this week.

I have already been told that the enormous property is heated by 3 boilers in total and has a host of gas fires and a cooker hob. They are proposing to add a fourth boiler (a combi) to enable the top floor living area to be fully independant. Now, all this adds up to a huge amount of KW of input would you agree? Apparantly the three boilers are 2 x Viesseman Vitodens 100W each with 26KW (fitted a year ago) and an old Kingfisher doing the hot water with max 19KW. This alone amounts to 71KW without taking into account the hob and fires and the proposal of a fourth boiler.

What you may ask is supplying all these appliances with working pressure they need?... A single U6 meter with 22mm coming off and feeding throughout!

Now, knowledge and maths tells me that these appliances are being starved of gas as a U6 meter can't cope with anything more than 64KW no? And thats not taking into account the undersized pipework (appliances are huge distances from meter).

So, I know that when I visit the property it will be my duty to class the installation as I.D and seek permission to cap. But I'm really feeling a bit nervous about this as I know all eyes will be on me and my observations won't be met happily to say the least. I guess I'm just looking for a bit of confirmation and back up really. I know I am right (even rang gas safe tech to confirm) but just need a few more voices singing from the same sheet.

[Kev the gas]

The bigger the client the bigger the clout when you make a balls up.

The appliances require a certain amount of gas, if you do not supply it you are last man on site.

Walk away, show you have the balls, most clients will appreciate that and will trust you.

If they wont listen to your advice now it is their loss.

Kev.

[HeatStar]

My thoughts as to a solution at this point would be a bigger meter and complete new gas installation, but obviously I need to visit the property first to see that this is viable.

I guess I just want to be able to state the facts and my duties and then propose a solution. I have heard that gas safe themselves will visit site free of charge to help spec a new install, but not sure if this is true?

[chris watkins]

Why would you want them on the job ?? You can & should be able to size it all up. When on site make sure you get down all the gas appliances kW inputs & a rough line lay out of the gas runs or what you think they are cor's you won't be able to see em. Take the info away & tell them you will have to size it all up & by the looks of it they are going to need an uprated meter. 71kw = around 6.6 M3/h Already over the U6 Qmax of 6M3/h.

[tamz]

The existing meter is well under without adding another boiler.
You should mention this on your visit and tell the meter that is in is not big enough capacity for what is in, never mind adding another boiler and the pipework will need upgrading.
It will need a U16 and the way you describe it, the pipework volume and possibly sizing, will be over domestic limits once altered so unless you have the tickets, you will need to sub it out.

BTw regardless of who they are, you should treat every job the same.

[snowhead]

You don't have to I.D the whole installation.
You only need to cap off enough for the remainder to comply.
Only you can see the installation but maybe just capping one of the Viesseman may be enough.

[GrahamM]

To start with the instal is only ID if under-gassed and flame stability is affected or FGA readings way off. So you will need to do some testing.
If flame stability and or FGA are acceptable and reaching MI's minimum rate, then it is an NCS situation if not getting full gas to reach max rate.
If minimum rate not reached and flame stability/FGA are acceptable then it is AR.

You may get away with AR, or as per snowhead if you have to ID, ask permission to disconnect an appliance to give you your minimum to the others.

[HeatStar]

Thanks for the advice fellas, much appreciated. I'm aware I will have to carry out testing before classing anything, it just sounds to me that with all appliances operating they won't achieve their required working pressures and FGAs, but we'll see I guess.

[Gmaservices]

Let us no how you get on.

[Backboiler]

Don't forget to include the diversity factor in you calculations

[stratobuddy]

Don't forget when you speak to her, you call her MAM (rhymes with jam) not MAAM (rhymes with calm).

"Your Maj" is a no-no.

[billybob150811]

the diversity factor of the main boiler is 1 and i think the next boiler is as well but the third boiler is quite low poss .5 so be careful before rushing in kirk usually has these answers

[SafeGasInstall]

i did some work in a large house were they had 3 gas meters !!! so look around and just check to see what is there before you go and start mentioning cupping off the lot ! take it easy and give it all in writhing and suggest all that needs to be done to bring it to current standards .
hope you get the job and give us a update how it went