Delay in reaching temperature.

[Jaded]

Hi. Newbie. I've recently moved into a new flat. The central heating comes on at 06:30. On a cold (outside) morning, the temperature in the combined loung/dining room may take until 1 or 2 pm to reach 20 deg C (68 deg F). Does anyone know if there is any sort of official guideline or specification for this sort of performance factor?
T I A
J

[ajs heating]

thats slow
what boiler system is it ?
boiler maybe set to low

[Jaded]

AJS. Thanks for reply. The boiler is an Ideal Icos; underneath the boiler there is a label which says Icos system HE 15. If you can tell me where else to look for info I'd be glad to.
There is a variable control on the lower r h s. (flow temp?). I've tried this at ten settings between 0.5 and 5 (max). But I'm unable to get God to keep an exactly similar outside temp on successive days! At a setting of 5, the flow temp is c80 deg C. The room stat is in the hall, and this reaches temp early. There are three small radiators in the hall. I've tried turning off two of these to reduce the warming up rate in the hall, and this has made a difference. I would very much like to know if there is a spec for warming up the main living rooms so I could show it to the builders.
J

[Jaded]

Apologies to moderators for two threads. Cabbadge, hi. Thanks for leads; I will follow them up. I offer the following for interest. The room is a combined living/dining room c79 sq metres, current radiators are one (double double) at 600 x 700, and another (double double) at 600 x 800 mm. Archstone's Customer manager states that these are adequate with the boiler turned up to max. It is true that once the room is up to 20 deg they can maintain it (just). My grumble is the time (c 7 hours) to reach 20 deg on a cold morning. Everyone I speak to says the living rooms should heat up in c 2 hours. He says that 24 hours is OK. The problem is finding some authoritative source of info that he might listen to.
T I A
J

[cabbadge]

Try contacting the heating and hotwater industry council, prehaps they can help. but tell me is it that the radiators are not getting hot do you think?

[Jaded]

Cabbadge. With a flow temp at the boiler of 80, radiator 1 (lounge); input temp is 77, radiator 2 (dining area) temp is 74. They certainly feel too hot to touch for long. I wish that I had measured the return at the radiators now, but I'm only a punter, not a plumber. But I'm learning!
J

[CharterGAS]

news flash !! if you run high flow temps on a condensing boiler you are asking for trouble!!! especially ideal!! if ideals can t dump heat it causes loads of problems!!!!

you should be running a max flow temp of around 70 degrees C

i don't know off the top of my head but check the pump speed!!!
(don't know if ideal pumps have speed adjustment)

get installer to make sure they have 20 degrees differential between flow and return to make sure boiler condenses

also make sure there is 15 degrees differential across the the radiators

[Jaded]

CG - hi. Are you sure of your facts? I can't believe that the manufacturers would publish dud information in today's tightly regulated world. Their instruction manual states that the max flow temp is 82 deg C. Also, I have asked widely on this subject in the plumbing fraternity and the Ideal Icos seems to have a good reputation.
The problem is now in the lap of the Gods. The builders have turned turned up trumps and fitted larger radiators. There is c 40% more radiating surface than before.
Readers might be interested to note that no one, repeat no one, has ever been able to refer me to an authoritative statement of a 'reasonable warm-up time'. Does this suggest a valid criticism of the white collar workers in the building industry's research centres?

[CharterGAS]

hi jaded
i look after 14 ideal istors which are basically the same boiler except is has an unvented cylinder under it. I have major problems with these boilers and they are only just 2 yrs old.
I have been to hull to Ideal and did their training course on the ideal and the guy taking our class specifically said that if you cant shift the heat away from the boiler then you will get loads of different fault codes which are actually wrong ie flame rec fault code .

since taking the course i have returned to these boilers and who ever put them in only set up for 11 degrees temp differential and the radiators not balanced properly. Since adjusting to 20 degree differential and setting up the rads correctly the boiler now actually condenses and since then had no problems.

These are my experiences so hopefully they will help you too.

re max flow temp_ is the maximum temp it will put out to the radiators, but with big radiators you don't need to put it at max flow - in Germany they are restricted to 70 degrees max flow temp!! i have loads of boiler out there that have a max flow temp of 70 and even less, they are also used with weather compensation. I have never had any problems with heating the rads .

There is a belief that condensing boilers should have the flow and return temp low as possible to suit the system to prevent long term problems with the boiler particularly heat exchangers. this is evident with baxi releasing a boiler with a plastic heat exchanger.

So really the best way to set upi your condensing boiler is to have 20 degrees differential temp, down rate the boiler if possible to the correctly calculated heating load
and if you are not using weather compensation then limit the flow temperature to 70 max!! you will find it will be way more efficient.

As per heating times in the proper calculation they should have allowed for rapid heat up time too so it may very well be a pipe work issue. is the flat a new build??