Aaaaaagh. Burner Lockout. Bloddy bleedin bloody Heritage Range Cooker

[ployters]

Right,
I am at my wits end. Firstly I cannot find a plumber who will come and commission my new ST40 NuWay oil burner fitted to my Range Cooker. They all throw their hands up and say - ooohhhh noo, that's special, or I'm busy, or 'has it been installed by an OFTEC engineer"

Well, it hasn't. It was installed by me who happens to have installed a number of boilers over the years, including a wood burning stove that is connected to our water.

I have installed everything as per regulations; flue diameters, distance from combustibles, diameters of oil pipes, fire valves, electrical isolation etc. It has a fan flue from Exhausto. This has been installed and works with a pressure switch.


The new burner was install in the combustion chamber. Oil line purged. Pressure set to 115 pis as per instructions for the Range Cooker. air damper set to 5, as per instructions. Air inlet is room sealed outside - no blockage.
Flue is new, no blockage. Oil pipe allows oil to flow, I timed it at about 0.5 litre per minute, so way in excess of the 0.4 gph 80 nozzle. There are no air bubbles in it. The oil comes from a tank which supplies another boiler - the CH boiler. That works, and always has done, very well.

Problem. I cannot get the feck er to start. Start it up. The fan flue starts. Pressure switch then allows power to the burner once up to speed. THe burner pre-purges, oil pressure hits 115 psi, flames start, struggles for a bit, then pop goes the puff back and the lockout comes on. Try again, same thing. Pump works, solenoid works, air works. The only way I have manages to get the thing going in anyway is to turn the pressure right down - say 80psi, then lots of air and it fires but it is MAASIVELY sooty so turn off and clean the cooker out!

Boy have I struggled. Daily call to plumbers to commission it, no reponse. All they have to do is to turn up and adjust the settings and make it work. I cannot think what I have missed. The cooker manufacturer uses the fan flue all the time, so it is not too weak or strong for the cooker. I thought maybe the draught was too high and so the flame was bouncing on the nozzle, so I trimmed the fan flue right down and still not joy.

That's it. 5 weeks without hot food! Wifey is getting ****ed off. Anyone got any bright ideas what to try next. The can only be three things, oil, air and flue, unless there is something that I am missing like preying to the God Venus or something.

I can only think there must be a fan flue issue. Is it too strong? It is set to the miniumum setting which is 20 which is equivalent to 0.8 wa I think. The instrcutions say that I should set to 115psi and 5 air and this gives a slightly different reading to normal on the analyser, but I cant get the sodding thing fired up to get any blasted reading.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaagh!

HELP

Kev

[SafeGasInstall]

you just have advertised you self in public that you do ILLEGAL Work for which you can be PROSECUTED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ployters]

Thanks SafeGasInstall. You'll notice that I am trying to get a OFTEC plumber to commission it. You are perfectly allowed to install, as in - put in place, anything you like so long as you dont use it. I haven't used it. It is currently a green cupboard. If I can get a plumber to Self-certify it, then I will. Other than that, I will get buidling regs to inspect the work. None of that is illegal, and hence I can't be prosecuted - but hey, thanks for your helpful comment.

[SafeGasInstall]

it's illegal to sertify illegal work,by the way!keep your hands off it!
This is all I will say!

[SafeGasInstall]

P.s:
You don' use it cos you can get it to work!!!!

Pls don't try to burn your house down !!!

Keep your hands of it!

[tamz]

You could ring the manufacturer and get them to commission it.
Most offer this service.

[so-solar]

safegasinstall......................... top marks for your spelling and grammar!

secondly, the bloke is trying to gain some information as to why his system is failing and all you have done is shoot him down due to illegal installations! If you read the post fully then you will realise that he has installed these systems before, The regulations state that you must be competent to install, how do you prove competency? and i am quietly confident that you can install in your own premises all be it your insurance would probably be void but not sure that you can call it illegal, it only becomes illegal when you do it for gain, i.e you get paid for the works so unless his wife is paying him then he is well within the law,

I wish i could point you in the right direction mate but oil is out of my speciality,

Maybe others on this forum could give some positive input rather than just start spouting ridiculous regulation talk. We are hammered with regulations and god damn paperwork and the last thing we should do is fire them all over the place because we have nothing positive to say or more the likely, have not got a clue!

[so-solar]

safegasinstall......................... top marks for your spelling and grammar!

secondly, the bloke is trying to gain some information as to why his system is failing and all you have done is shoot him down due to illegal installations! If you read the post fully then you will realise that he has installed these systems before, The regulations state that you must be competent to install, how do you prove competency? and i am quietly confident that you can install in your own premises all be it your insurance would probably be void but not sure that you can call it illegal, it only becomes illegal when you do it for gain, i.e you get paid for the works so unless his wife is paying him then he is well within the law,

I wish i could point you in the right direction mate but oil is out of my speciality,

Maybe others on this forum could give some positive input rather than just start spouting ridiculous regulation talk. We are hammered with regulations and god damn paperwork and the last thing we should do is fire them all over the place because we have nothing positive to say or more the likely, have not got a clue!

[tamz]

In the meantime, clean the photocell

[easyt]

As I understood. I'm no expert though. The system has to be commissioned (legally) by an Offtec registered person who then certifies the commissioning. But before this the diy installation should be notified to building control and inspected (for a fee). The Offtec registered technician should not commission or certify without evidence of the BCO certification.

[dontknowitall]

Just to put a spanner in the works I don't think you have to be qualified to install these "machines", except for certain parts of it, eg electrics. The oil world isn't as Hitler like (hope I'm allowed to say that!) as Gas Safe and the electrical world. Anyone is allowed to service and maintain an oil boiler or contraption (e.g. oil stove).

BUT

If there are building regulations to adhere to then you need a qualified OFTEC in this case or a building inspector from the local council.

For example, there are building rules on the ventilation. You can get this passed by the building inspector (for a princely sum) or if it's installed correctly most OFTEC chappies would be happy to sign the work off for much less than the building inspector.

There's another BUT too ...

I suspect that if an OFTEC technician does not sign off the installation then the warranty would be invalid.

[ployters]

Well, the story has ended. I got a very nice man who is an OFTEC registered plumber to come by. He spent 20 minutes looking over the installation and commented that it was as good an installation as he has ever seen and better than many 'long term' experts.
He found absolutely no fault in the system or set, but also - couldn't get it working. After 2 hours of fanyying about and adjusting things up and down - it all started working. Yes, at exactly the settings I had always had them! So there was nothing wrong with the settings, nothing changed and now it starts and works like a dream - quiet as a mouse.

There you have it. He is happy to sign it off and in fact left the house having "learnt quite a lot" from the installation. Boilers are leaving breathing things that can infuriate you. We can now cook for our guest at the weekend.

[easyt]

Nobody likes a smarty pants . Just joking. Glad all is working. Good luck

[buffy27]

been watching this one....the icing on the cake is now that u educated an oftec heating engineer .."learnt quite alot from the installation"..LOL u need a change of career man..they are looking for guys to lecture in the colleges !!!!!!!!
such installations are straight forward for any qualified engineer ....u obviously had it done differently if u educated the oftec guy... i am oftec registered in ireland and am confused as to what u showed the guy that he didnt know !!!!
it seems that it needed to be bleed properly is all !!!!! did u show him how to do that !!

[ployters]

Ha! Believe me I bled it a thousand times, in the proper way - where you submerge the pipe in oil and watch for bubbles - not just let it bounce in a tray and make you think you see bubbles. He bled it another 5 times and confirmed no bubbles and an excellent flow rate. As it was the oil pressure was rock solid at 115psi which wouldn't have happened if there was air in the oil as the air would expand the moment it had a chance to and reduce pressure (one of the main reasons why pressure gauge readngs vibrate.)

The bits that he learnt were based around the fact that it is a fan flue, rather than conventional. Do you know how to measure flue draught, and how to convert "" WG to p.a.? I do, he didn't. The wiring of the flue is done in such a way that the neutral line (not the live) is moderated through a variable triac, and snubber circuit, which means you can adjust the fan speed to match your flue set up so as not to overdraught and make the flame bounce on the nozzle (cooling it). A pressure switch detects the presence of sufficient draught which then allows the boiler to try igniting.

We also discussed the reasons why a different angle nozzle is chosen for this oven and how different flow rate and pattern affects its operation. (It isn't just about kw's). I told him that I had brought the 450kg oven into the building, over steps and a tiled floor, and installed it in place with just one friend and NO lifting equipment whatsoever. The only thing I used cost £3.25. How would you do that?

So, yes, he may have learned something - and no, we have no idea why it just started working. The only slight thought was that initially there was a lot of white smoke coming out - which turned out to be steam and it may be that, having sat in my garage for 9 months, it had collected lots of condensation inside the whole oven. When the thing fired up, the exhaust gases were being cooled too rapidly by all the condensation and not exiting the oven quickly enough, and choking the flame. After about 10 minutes of firing, the white smoke stopped and it ran as clean and quiet as a clean, quiet whistle.

It is now as smooth as you like - nothing at all having been changed other than having been in the house for 6 weeks, it must having been slowly drying out'. Buffy, would you have thought of condensation throughout the oven as the reason for it not working? - probably not.

And now we can have roast lamb at the weekend.